Great leaders are also readers!

I’ve heard this several times throughout my leadership journey and have found that reading is the medium that I most enjoy to continue my professional education.

But reading isn’t enough. You aren’t magically gaining new skills just because you go through the content. Implementation is where it’s at.

Which is why I sat down with Nick Hutchinson. Nick is the author of Rise of the Reader: Strategies for Mastering Your Reading Habits and Applying What You Learn. Nick is the visionary force behind BookThinkers, a growing 7-figure marketing agency that seamlessly bridges the worlds of authors and readers.

We explore:

- SMART strategies for reading with intention and quickly applying the lessons to your goals

- Reading habits and strategies for incorporating it into daily life

- Simplifying complex information and author relationships

- Personal development, books, and connecting with others

Whether you’re an avid reader or hesitant to devote time to reading, this interview will give you new perspectives that will certainly help you on your own journey.

Links

Purchase a copy of Rise of the Reader https://a.co/d/blPZB5M

Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com

Activate The Warrior Within https://www.adamliette.com/awaken-the-warrior

​

Transcript

Adam Liette
What's going on smooth operators Welcome to this episode, this one is going to be fun because if you know me for more than five minutes, you know that I am absolutely in love with the almighty paperback. Beautiful, wonderful, hold it in your hands and just dive into it book. Man, that was a long description, wasn't it? That was me expressing my English and number of ways of describing things because I love the written word. I think it has a way of conveying things that few other things can. And I have learned more from books and almost anything else in my life, as many online courses that I've taken and podcasts as I listened to, except for this podcast, of course, that's your number one. But it is books that I continue to go to time and time again. And there's a reason I try to read at least one a week. And I never stop because it's this never ending journey. And man you can find a friend and a book. And even not just business books, man, I keep a fiction book on hand all the time because I can lose myself in a novel and man what a beautiful way to end the day. And matter of fact, it was a book that brought me into this career field to begin with. I was sitting there with a broken leg from a parachute jump and injured and being told just rest for a little bit a little while. I don't rest very easily and that's when I discovered Russell Brunson his book.com secrets opened up a whole world to me and I know if you're anything like me, books are going to open up a whole new world to you as well. Which is why I'm so geeking out about this episode. I have Nick Hutchison with me. So who's Nick? Nick is the founder of book thinkers. This is a podcast, where it's one of the top global or global top 2% shows featured all sorts of amazing people like Grant Cardone. Yes, Russell Brunson, Alex, her Mozi, my man, Alex, and Steven Pressfield, who's one of my personal favorite authors. So Nick is an amazing guy just talking to him in the pre show here. He interviews these authors, he gets to connect with them. He has a marketing agency, which helps business owners and entrepreneurs bring their books to market actually get it in the hands of their people. And he has a new book out called Rise of the reader where he dives into the strategies for mastering your reading habits and applying what you learned. Dude, Nick, this is going to be so much fun. How you doing today, brother? Adam,

Nick Hutchinson
that was a wonderful introduction. Can I ask you the first question today?

Adam Liette
You sure can. Yeah, let's mix it all up. There are no rules. No rules. I

Nick Hutchinson
like that. Okay, so we just wrapped up 2023 At the time of this filming, and I'm curious, what was the best book that you read in 2023? Since you're an avid reader, like myself,

Adam Liette
the best book of 2023 Okay, I'm gonna have to go back. I'm looking at my wall right now. You know, I have to say it's gonna be a little bit of an unconventional one. It was a mission of mine and 2023. I read the Daily stoic every day by Ryan Holiday. And it's just a short passages. So it was just the the consistency of reading that every day that makes us stand out.

Nick Hutchinson
Yeah, man. I've gone through that book cover to cover maybe three years. And we've interviewed Ryan on our show as well. What an amazing book. That book introduced me to stoicism and stoicism, such an actionable philosophy. I mean, it's changed the way I think about death. The way I think about external events, the way I think about all sorts of things in my life. So really cool pick, I'm happy that you said that.

Adam Liette
Yeah, and in many ways, I'm a very religious person. It's made me like, closer to my faith too. And so many ways. It's like, all like Christ and stoicism are happening almost at the same time. Like, and you can tell like there's just the way that people wrote back then that was just it's timeless for a reason

Nick Hutchinson
why the same way man, that's a cool bridge between Christ and stoicism, but I can see it now that you say it that way.

Adam Liette
Now my book that I got last year that I haven't read again yet. I went to this visit beautiful place in Ohio. You just got back from Columbus. Columbus has a chain of books called Half Price Books. And it's it's a secondhand store but man what a beautiful place. I found a first edition of the unedited stand The Stand by Stephen King and sitting right there because I found it and let first edition that's mine. So that's that's the I haven't read reread it yet, because that's a journey to read again. But I will soon. Awesome,

Nick Hutchinson
man. Yeah, well, and then rise of the reader will be on your list for 2024

Adam Liette
Oh, for sure, man. Yeah, it's already on the way. Good stuff.

Nick Hutchinson
Well, thank you for indulging my curiosity for a moment and switching things up a little bit for your audience. I'm sure it was fun. for them to hear about the daily stoic if you haven't talked about it before, and

Adam Liette
I think it's come up before, but um, ya know, if guys don't have that book, get it. So it's one of those books that just keeps on giving and giving and giving every day. Yeah,

Nick Hutchinson
it really does. It really does. I got my first copy of that book. Let's see, I don't know what year it was three, four or five years ago, my friend Alec gifted me a copy of it. And he said, Hey, there's this cool new philosophy that's starting to get some legs, people are really starting to read about it. It's called stoicism. And he said, every day, let's each read the one page. And then let's just jump on the phone for five minutes and talk about it. And we started that habit, he sort of fell off. But I continued reading the book. And I mean, I have a few copies of it. But let me just show you. Let me just show you like there are literally pages falling out of my copy. And it's just oh my gosh, it's beat up. And I mean, the covers fallen off. I just, I was in this thing every day for years. Wow.

Adam Liette
Yeah, like, that's a sign of a well loved book when it's falling apart. Exactly. Yeah. But that's like, I think that's one of the things about books is that in a world or everything is digital, and just kind of like, here, and like, you can touch it, but not really, you know, it's on the same device. Like there's something about the paper model, and just like you can possess it in a way and have ownership of it in a way that you just can't have with other mediums.

Nick Hutchinson
Yeah, I agree 1,000%, there are so many benefits to reading a physical paper book over a digital book or an audiobook. And sometimes people get mad at me when I say this, but Facts are facts. And we like facts. So 80% 80 80% of the inputs to our brain are visual. So by default, if you're only listening to an audio book, you're at a disadvantage, because you're probably multitasking. And you're only leveraging the audio input to your brain, which is a small portion of physical paper book. You can read it, you can touch it, you can feel it, you're leveraging the visual input to your brain, you can go back to your favorite takeaways. You could take notes right in the book, you could smell it, right? And then it becomes a trophy. Right, you put it up there, and it becomes a sign of something that you've overcome a skill that you've developed, whatever the case is a new philosophy. And, man, you can just go back to those books over and over and over again. So there's something special. And check out this note from my buddy Alec when he gave me the book, and even signed it. January 2018, the daily stoic. Oh my gosh, you don't get that on an audiobook to you?

Adam Liette
You don't Yeah, you don't get it on a Kindle or an iPad either? Yeah, yeah, it's a different way of experiencing things. And I just find something so refreshing about what's old is new, all over again. And I find that is so true in even how we're running our business is the idea that oh, that's like the old way of doing old things work, like. And I say that because I'm starting to get there. I can call myself old, right? I'm just not yet. I'm too young for that. Well,

Nick Hutchinson
you know what I like to say, Adams, and I just I just turned 30 last month. But if you include all of the books behind me, which condense decades of somebody else's lived experience into days of reading, right, and I'm consuming all those books. I mean, heck, I'm 1000s of years old when you look at it that way.

Adam Liette
Well, I got you by 10 years on the age but and but you got me on the books. I think you've read more than I have. But you know what, we'll come to a happy medium. I got you on the hair, my hair's better. See, told you. So if I think for our listeners out there, if you're not a reader, like Rise of the readers was written for people to help them, like, uncover this and realize this superpower. So if someone out there is like, yeah, I read like, maybe a couple a year or I thumbed through them, like, what are some of the the strategies that we can put in place? If someone says, You're right, you know, I need to read more. Like what are some simple strategies that we can put in place that will help us to accomplish what seems like a big goal at first.

Nick Hutchinson
Whenever I meet somebody that that's resistant to reading, or they're not reading much, I love to disarm them by asking this question first. I love to say, if I paid you $10,000 to read a book by the end of next month, do you think you could do it? And that same person who just told me they don't read? They're like, Oh, yeah, I mean, I can read five. Right? So they've fallen into my trap because what they've admitted is that they can read they're just choosing not to. It's not about whether or not you can read it's about whether you value reading enough to prioritize it over the other things that are currently taking up your time because we all you Who's the 24 hours that we have available to us? So, okay, we all admit that we can start reading, how do we get that process started? I'm a big fan of concepts like the compound effect, baby steps in the right direction, how do we make it as attainable as possible. And so what I recommend for people is, instead of trying to find time to read, just replace a low impact activity, like scrolling on social media, or watching a bit of Netflix, with reading a great book, not the whole thing, I'm not a robot, right, I still enjoy entertainment and having fun. But if you can swap 15 minutes of scrolling on social media in the morning, and maybe just the first 15 minutes of your Netflix in the evening, with reading a great book, that's 30 minutes a day. If you're just starting out, 30 minutes of reading might be 20, pages 10 In the morning, 10 In the evening, and you do that five days a week, that's 100 pages a week. Most of these books are 200 pages or less. So that's literally a book every two weeks, just by replacing a little bit of social media, and a little bit of Netflix. And by the way, social media and Netflix, they do have some value outside of just entertainment, you can learn they're a little bit educational, but not in the same way that a book is. And so I say, swap that out for a little bit for a few months and watch your life change.

Adam Liette
Yeah, and it's a beautiful way of kind of book ending your day too. Because I've noticed I start with better intention. If I if I come to the office, and before I fire up the laptop, I just sit there, I have a little couch right here next to my desk for a reason. I sit there and I'll read for 15 minutes before I get to this desk. And I do the same thing in the evenings and I found I sleep better. If I read for those 15 minutes, I'm sound asleep much quicker. And well, it was always it was easier when I still drank and I quit drinking too. So but like I sleep better without the Netflix or without the show that it's weird how that works. Like it calms your mind in a weird way.

Nick Hutchinson
Well, yeah, every device that we use emits blue light and blue light is disruptive to our circadian rhythm. And so, you know, you're a caveman in your dark cave, trying to fall asleep at night, except the sun's just beaming into your face the whole time. Like it's hard to fall asleep that way. But when you put away the TV or the phone screen, and you read for a little while, your body's like, oh, okay, now it's time to go to bed. So yeah, I think there are a lot of benefits to doing it that way. And I've also heard that the last thought you have before you go to sleep is the first thought you have when you wake up. So that's another way of like, put some positivity in there instead of the negative divisive stuff, or the entertaining gossipy stuff that you get on TV or your phones. And I mean, there's also subconscious priming, like give yourself a problem to work on overnight. Your brain doesn't go to sleep, it's active the entire time. So feed it something nutritious before you go to bed consciously. Yeah.

Adam Liette
And then sleep with your notebook next to your bed because you're gonna wake up with that 3am idea. I promise you that. I get that twice a week lately.

Nick Hutchinson
Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's like give yourself a problem to solve. And you'll have that aha moment a little bit more often be intentional about I think it's a good idea. Yeah.

Adam Liette
Fantastic. All right, guys, you got your homework, I got mine, too. So there we go. And of episode, no kidding. We're just getting started. Because this is, this is where it gets fun. Because I was just listening to an interview yesterday with Tony Robbins. He's talking about how he became Tony Robbins, and how you read 700 books in two years. And that blows my mind, first of all, but I know for myself personally. Like I don't, I'm not always the best at applying what I read, like actually figuring out a way to great I read this now I'm going to do it always seems to be like, Oh, that sounds like the great idea for next week. Like how do we get better at doing that?

Nick Hutchinson
I have so many recommendations here. I'll try not to put everybody to sleep because I focus a lot on the implementation of information. I think that the best place to start is by setting a SMART goal for every book that we read. And this is so common sense once you hear it, but nobody does it. So a SMART goal. If for anybody that's not familiar is a goal setting framework. SMART is an acronym. So S stands for specific, your goal needs to be specific. M stands for measurable. What's not being measured, can't be managed. You need to know whether or not you achieved your goal. A stands for attainable, which really means realistic, right? You need to set a goal that you can actually take action on that doesn't overwhelm you and cause procrastination. R stands for relevant. And so that means you need to be emotionally connected to the goal these books they're meant to solve problems or build skills are satisfied curiosities, not just entertain you. And then T is time bound, you want to leverage Parkinson's Law, meaning, the amount of time you give a task, it will naturally expand to fill that time allotted. So you want to give yourself a deadline to take action on the books that you read. Napoleon Hill has this great quote, he said. He said, the real measure of intelligence is action. And so I think action, that's what we need to optimize for. So when you're setting a SMART goal for the book that you're reading, before you open a page, you sit down, and you say, let me build a goal for this book, let's say you're reading The War of Art by Steven Pressfield, which is one of your favorite books, Adam said, of just reading the book and hoping that it's going to change your life, it's your if it's your first time through, you might set a goal like this, find and implement at least one strategy for overcoming resistance by the end of February. Because resistance is keeping me under my potential. And it's time for me to burst out of my shell and go live this life, right? No regrets. And so by setting an intention like that, find and implement at least one strategy for overcoming resistance, by the end of February, and writing that intention on the inside, cover the book and then reading it every time you go through another chapter. It's like you're sharing the goal with the book so that the book can share the most important information that you can take action on back with you. Because our brains have this beautiful reticular activating system, the RAS, it's our brains natural filter. And so by sharing our goal, you'll filter everything else out at all melt away, and just those actions that you can implement to overcome resistance will jump off the page. And so I know that was a long explanation. But that was that was specific, like, I know what my goal is, I'm overcoming resistance. It's measurable, because at the end of the experience, did I implement at least one strategy for overcoming resistance that was attainable. I didn't say like, start a business, write two books and make a million dollars next month just like, implement one strategy. I'm emotionally connected to it because resistance man kicks all of our butts. And then it's time bound. By the end of February, I gave myself a deadline to take action. So all of that is just to say, if you bake action into your goal for each book, it's so much more likely to happen.

Adam Liette
Not only that, like that, that like guides your book selection in so many ways to because you're you know what your goals are, you know, the things you're working towards. So find the book that supports you in that time in that moment in that space. So you're like combining your intention and your goals with an activity to let you to give you the knowledge needed to do this other activity. It's like, and that becomes the bridge. So the book is a bridge from where you're trying to from where you're at, to where you're trying to go. Absolutely,

Nick Hutchinson
yeah, they solve problems. They build skills. And sometimes I use this metaphor. I'm like, you know, imagine you wanted to cook the world's best chicken parm, right. I love chicken parm, it's one of my favorite dishes. So you buy an entire cookbook just on chicken parm. And you read the entire book. Every single cover is dog eared coffee stains, you're taking notes, you're studying everything. You even buy all of the ingredients. But you never make the chicken parm. That would seem weird, right? You're like this far from tasting the recipe that you've been reading about and you choose not to make the chicken parm? Well, so many people, they buy books on entrepreneurship, and they don't start businesses. They buy books on nutrition, and they don't die it. They buy books on personal finance and they don't set a budget. It's like, why are we reading these books that hold all of the secrets to solving our problems? If we're choosing not to take action on them? It's like, once you see the chicken parm metaphor, you're like, oh, goodness, gracious, like, I have some action to take.

Adam Liette
Yeah. That's my newest, like weird What the heck is that book is a book on cabinet making, because I'm getting ready to build the cat Kitchen Kitchen cabinets in my new house. Like because we're in construction right now like that's, that's my hobby outside of all this because I'm not busy enough, because I like to do carpentry. And it was this crazy thing where this book is like 300 pages long. And I found like the two chapters that were relevant to me, and that's what I've read of it. Like, I can't say I've read the book, because I have it. But I read my chapter that I need it right now. And it's crazy. In

Nick Hutchinson
like, inventory you have just in time fulfillment, right? And I think in reading you have just in time reading, it's like, I think about it like a tool belt kind of I mean, if you read a great book on negotiation, you can use it to solve that problem in real time. But also like when you see a nail in the future, you pull out your hammer because it's in your tool belt, you've you've earned that skill set, you have the tool available and so next time you buy a car or anything, you know, you pull out the tool and you use the skill set? So yeah, I think that's really cool. We should all definitely read with more intention.

Adam Liette
Yeah, man. I love it. And then we get to sell more books, which is awesome. And that's where you come in because you help people sell books? And I think that is. So yeah, cards on the table. I do marketing to, I haven't successfully marked marketed a book yet I haven't tried. So that's first step. But um, how is marketing a book? Is it any different than marketing a course or a physical product ECommerce? Like what are the things that you do to help bring these books to market and help them become successful?

Nick Hutchinson
I'll give you everybody a little background info first. And then we'll kind of talk about what book thinkers my agency does for authors. So I started this agency by accident, because I was reading and applying sales and marketing books to my sales and marketing job. And I was experiencing a lot of success as a result of that back as a recent college graduate. And I was trying to tell everybody around me, co workers and friends and family like these books hold all the secrets to making money, like come on, use them, and nobody wanted to read. So I turned to social media. And I started posting the books, I was reading, sort of like wanting to connect with like minded people. And I started finding a lot of people that were engaging with the content, the book reviews that I was generating. And as the audience grew, eventually, authors started to reach out and they'd say, Hey, Nick, I love your book reviews, can I pay you to review mine? And I was like, Well, this is interesting. I didn't expect to monetize my audience in this way. But it makes sense, right, I have an audience of motivated book buyers. And I have authors that need to promote market their books. So I am I recently looked at my my first paid book promotion, like a PayPal receipt, and it was $40, which just, it's so funny to go back $40. And I read an entire book and spent hours and hours and hours of my time creating content. But as I continue to read books on business and grow and get to know these authors and their problems better, we started to try out different things at different services at this intersection between social media and books and podcasts. And I'll say this, there are hundreds of ways to promote and market a book. And we're really good at only two or three of them. And we leave the rest of those marketing tools and tips and strategies to everybody else. So I suppose the three things that my agency is really good at. One is short form video. So organically growing somebody's brand on social media, by building either 50 or 100 pieces of short form video content with them as a thought leader. So we actually fly out to the authors with the cameras and the lighting and the scripts. Every video has a solid hook or a powerful opinion, then it provides value and retains the viewer through the end of the video. And then it has a call to action to buy the book, or maybe something that the book is a comp, you know, like a complementary product or service coaching, consulting, speaking, these things that authors participate in. So that's, that's what one thing that we're really good at too, is podcast booking. So placing authors on shows to talk about their book in their niche, and the complementary products and services that they offer. And we still do book reviews. We have hundreds of 1000s of followers across our socials and our podcast and we get paid to talk about books. So you know, you asked kind of a more general question before I ranted about what we do, which was is marketing a book different than marketing an online course or something like that. And I think it is for a number of reasons. You know, authors, they spend decades learning something years writing about it. And then it's condensed into a purchase for $20. So it's kind of a low ticket item. But books are like Russell Brunson is such a great example of this. Books are a lead mechanism for complementary products and services like coaching, consulting, speaking and those types of things. And so if you can distribute a book, even at a loss, but build a brand around it, I mean, it's a business card that nobody throws away, and Russell has the free plus shipping model and everything like that. That's brilliant. So there's so many reasons to sell a book. Yeah,

Adam Liette
and I think it's, it's almost a rite of rite of passage for many thought leaders is like when they write their first book, or their second, third, fourth, I mean, that some of the biggest thought leaders in our industry right now are also authors for a reason. And like you said, it's a great lead mechanism. It's a fantastic way of demonstrating your expertise, and bringing people into the next level with you and I know every person that I've spent more than a couple $100 on I read their book first. So goes to show you Yeah, it's that

Nick Hutchinson
first step, it's the first paid step in that value ladder. Because it's it's physical, it's inexpensive, and it's super valuable.

Adam Liette
Yeah, as long as the book is good, right? I, I bought more than a couple of free plus ship, I'm looking at my shelf going, Oh, that one, that one, I have a couple of free plus shipping book offers that I've gotten or the book was just not so much. But we'll leave those unhappy thoughts over on the bottom shelf where they belong. Yes. And you've met so many amazing authors. I mean, the list goes on and on. If you if someone's out there listening, and I might be asking this for myself. Like, how do like even starting that process of writing a book feels like a daunting task to most people, I think with good reason, or am I over estimating it because I'm at that decision point, too. And I'm making this into a mountain.

Nick Hutchinson
My perspective is always changing on this. I mean, prior to writing a book and going through the process myself as a book marketer, I'm like, Yeah, everybody should write a book, such an amazing experience, everybody should write a book, everybody has something of value to teach to their younger self, or whatever, whatever it is, right. But as I wrote my own book, I realized how difficult it was, I mean, there's definitely value in the process, because you're forced to consolidate your thinking in a way that's digestible for other people. And then they become frameworks and visuals. And all of that is useful, even if you don't sell a copy. But it's a long process. I mean, it took me years of observing my own behavior, putting it on paper, having other people go through it, giving me feedback. I mean, it was a tough, long process. Now I now I kind of sit in a space where I look through the lens of promoting and marketing the book, and it has to be different, you have to have something unique to say, otherwise, you'll sell a few copies to your friends and family. But it's going to be very hard to sell a bunch of copies, especially if you don't have a huge social media following. So now when I again, now when I look at a book, I think, Okay, do you have something unique to say? Is there an inbound demand for it? I mean, for my book, I had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people in my community over the years asking me the same questions. How do I choose the right book? How do I take great notes? How do I implement more from what I'm reading? How do I retain more everything goes in one ear and out the other. And I wish there was a book that I could have handed everybody. But there wasn't. And so I saw the demand, and I wrote it, and then it sold really well, because there wasn't anything else out there. I wasn't competing against 2500 other books on leadership or whatever, you know what I mean? So yeah, I think everybody should write one, as long as they have something really unique to say, and there's, there's like a very apparent inbound demand for what you have to teach. Does that make sense?

Adam Liette
It does. And I think, like, you almost crowdsource the content of it. Like, here are the questions I always get. And so now I'm going to answer this one more time. And I'm going to answer it with my authority. And whenever anyone asked me this question, again, I'll be like, here's your answer. And it's a link to go buy the book to figure it out. Because you already wrote the definitive version. Yeah,

Nick Hutchinson
have you read the Millionaire Fastlane by MJ DeMarco,

Adam Liette
I have not read that one. So good book, it's

Nick Hutchinson
on accelerated wealth building. But MJ, his his sort of brand big part of his branding was his Lamborghini, which he would drive everywhere. And so people come up to him outside of restaurants or at the grocery store or whatever. And they'd say, Whoa, cool. Lamborghini, how do I get one? What do you do for work? And he would hand them a copy of his book, The Millionaire Fastlane. And I'd always just had, and then of course, you know, as he tells the story, people are like, Well, I'm not much of a reader, can you just tell me, which is blows my mind. But I always had that same vision of like, I just, it has so much more leverage when you can just send somebody a link, because when I was answering those questions, one on one, there's no time leverage. I'm retyping everything every single time. And I'm not able to provide as much help. Like I'm not making as big of an impact because there's this entire picture that I can help you with, but I'm only answering your one individual question. So yeah, books are the way to go.

Adam Liette
And I think a lot of us, I'm a cord, I have a course and I do coaching. And like all the canned stuff, like most like the biggest impact is from coaching because it's just that relationship. But like all the questions I got asked a million times, I just recorded the content. And now it's like, go find it. It's right. Yes. Yes. So it's very much in that same vein. So maybe I'm not as far off from writing my own book as I thought, because I've already captured hours and hours and hours of my own IP into a form. It just needs to be refined into a different form, I think, yeah.

Nick Hutchinson
And there are companies that are not my company, but there are companies that can help you with that, too. You know, and then there's also artificial intelligence. So you could have chat GPT just transcribe all of the video files that you feed it, and then organize it into a nice little type book. I mean, your course probably follows a series of progressive modules and understanding anyway, like, it's mostly done.

Adam Liette
It mostly is. And gosh, if I use chat, GBT, I'm gonna like, I can't look myself in the mirror for that.

Nick Hutchinson
I mean, I agree. I did not use any AI for my book. I at the very end of my writing experience was really when chatty btw started to become popular. And I tried it on one paragraph, and it rewrote everything so much better than I could have. And I'm like, but that's not me. So yeah, I backs you know, I reversed the change. And then I was just submitted the manuscript.

Adam Liette
And of course, I love we're saying this now. And we're going to be able to look back on this interview in about two years and go, Man, we just weren't ready for it yet. Or it wasn't ready for us, because that technology is already gotten better since. And, yeah, we'll see where it goes. But it's May you live in interesting times, as we are once told by several, several months, smarter people. But speaking much smarter people, and I love the not not to move on too quickly. I love the ideas on marketing the books and like the very specific ways that you do it. I think it's, it's really organic, in many ways, in a really nice way, where it lets things kind of bubble up in a nice way. And allows that discovery, as well, like the idea that you've found this great book. And and I think there's something to like feeling like something, I found this and it found me as I feel about like when I go to those half price stores, and I like find that jam on the on the shelf. And so many ways we can like find ourselves in that kind of scenario online as well, where it's like, Whoa, look what I found. Yeah, this whole thing. Yeah,

Nick Hutchinson
I think I think there's a lot of value to organic growth, and paid growth. I just don't play around with it much. So I'm not in the world of paid advertising or paid marketing. I mean, I get paid to help people, but they're creating organic content. So I've heard it said this way, like the most important currency, as we move forward in time, is attention. It's not dollars. It's not Bitcoin, it's attention. And how do you build the most engaged audience it's through providing value organic video content. And like you said, when you stumble onto somebody, not through a paid ad, or a book funnel, but just because they posted a piece of content that went mini viral, and it's related to your niche, and you found a ton of value, and you're like, Whoa, I want to follow Adam, look at what he just taught me totally for free. I wonder what else is here. And then they get involved over a longer period of time and you build trust. It's like, that person is an engaged raving fan, not somebody who clicked through an advert and was forced to follow you on Instagram to win a giveaway or something, but like, a real human being, and they become part of your tribe that way. And it's so cool. It takes a while, but it's so cool.

Adam Liette
I love it because like, as of right now, like the biggest author out there, like Alex Hermoza, he says anything and everyone just drops whatever they're doing. And I found him in a different way. Like Alex and I had the same business coach at one point. Alex was at a much different level than I was in that with that business coach. But like when people like man, you know, Alex or Moses like, bro, I've known him for like five years. What's up, so I can be like, Oh, gee, Alex, or Mozi, which is kind of fun. Yeah, Alex.

Nick Hutchinson
I mean, he's been a guest on our podcast and and he brought so many eyeballs, which was it's just his own crazy fans watching every piece of content that he's on. So having him on was a really cool experience, and I love what he's done for my business and everything like that. My kind of funny Alex for Mozi story is that, after reading 100 million dollar offers and applying it to my business, I posted on Instagram about what a positive impact it had made for me, and Alex clipped that testimonial and the photo that went along on with it on Instagram. That funny enough didn't even have 100 million dollar offers pictured in it. And he uses that while used for a while that testimonial in, in person presentations like, look at what this book has done for other people and it would have a giant photo of my face and then like my testimonial for the book. And by that point, he had never come on my show or anything. And I had asked him a few times and I I wanted to jokingly be like, Listen, if you're going to use my face and your presentations like you might as well give me 30 minutes of your time for a podcast interview you owe

Adam Liette
me. Okay,

Nick Hutchinson
you owe me. Yeah, Alex. Yeah.

Adam Liette
This was the reciprocal relationship.

Nick Hutchinson
I'll tell you what his content is so amazing, though, because he simplifies complex information at like a third grade reading level. And that's hard to do. It's not easy.

Adam Liette
No, it is not. But in so many ways if you can do that, and maybe that's part of the secret is like being able to get out of your own way when explaining things. Like just just say it already enough. We're trying to sound smart. Just be smart.

Nick Hutchinson
Right? Yeah. Russell says, A confused customer always says no, that's one of my favorite quotes from Russell. And so yeah, stop trying to sound smart. Just tell them what you need to tell him.

Adam Liette
And use Kranz if necessary. I'm kidding. So you've been around so many people that listeners on the show are gonna be like, Oh, that guy, that guy, that guy. And I know you have to have some amazing stories from working with authors and your time that you spent with them, like what are some of the stories that stick out in your mind, of the authors that you've been able to spend time with?

Nick Hutchinson
Well, we were talking before, press record a little bit about Pressfield. And, man, I've loved that guy ever since I read The War of Art many, many, many years ago. And I've gone through that book a couple of times, again, all about overcoming resistance and becoming professional at what you do. And we had interviewed him virtually, I think a couple of times, but we had an opportunity to go out and film a podcast at his house. And it was the coolest experience ever. We flew out to LA we drove up to Malibu, and he bought this huge plot of land, overlooking the ocean in Malibu, it's pretty high up there back in 1993, which is coincidentally when I was born, huge piece of land. And it sits above the PCH, which is which is pretty heavy with traffic. But it's so far up that you don't hear anything except birds, and maybe ocean like in the background. And we got to hang out with him for a few hours and film content. And as I mentioned, he's just everything that you would ever want him to be and more. I mean, one of the greatest lessons I learned from him is that, I mean, it took him over 30 years of practice practicing his craft to make any money at it. I mean, he started writing, he was 20. And then it was 55, when the Legend of Bagger Vance was sold, and he made a little bit of cash on that book. And then it's book rights, and 30 years of grinding every single day in and out working odd jobs, oil rigs, driving trucks picking fruit, just so that he could afford enough time to write and go after his dream. And you look at the average person today. Especially like people in their 20s not to pick on everybody in their 20s. But I'm 30 now so it's just it's all instant gratification. You want things yesterday, but Steven Pressfield just turned 80 You know, he's what is the math 25 Really solid years from 55 to 80, where he has been a mega success. And it's like when you want to put in a little bit of work for a while and then achieve that status and get interviewed on Joe Rogan. And write books that sell millions of copies. It's just like, such a cool guy and so friendly. Him and his life partner. She like took care of us and we just got to hang out in his house and he's signing books and taking photos and answering questions. And it's just like, Man, I just love that guy so much.

Adam Liette
That's so cool, man. jeezum and I can't imagine that now. I secretly want to fly to LA and track him down to Yeah, but I you hit on something there that I think is present in in this time of the idea of like that instant gratification and like working for it and like knowing like the reps you're putting in today. Keep at it. There's fruition coming. It's not on your timetable, but it's the idea of that consistency and working and fighting them resistance is as Pressfield says, and just keeping at it, the reward is waiting for you. Like we have to keep striving towards it. And that I think is a lesson we can all do good remembering every single day of the week, especially when you're in the grind. And

Nick Hutchinson
there are no overnight successes. I'll tell another story real quick. Think about Grant Cardone, another one of these Alex Hormoz. He types just all over social media, right managing billions of dollars in syndicated properties, and he's got the jet and the G Wagen. And all the things right. But in his late 20s, he was in drug rehab, I think and I mean, he's 60 something now. So like, there was a period of 30 years of absolute grind, sales trainings, cold calling, just dialing for dollars for decades. Nobody knew his name. And here he is, everybody wants to be grant, what's the can I 10x? Everything overnight, like no, you can't. I mean, some people do. They're very lucky. But it's work, you got to put in the work. And I'll tell a quick story. So Grant was episode number nine, I think, or something like that on our podcast. And toward the end of the virtual recording, I really wanted to go meet grant in person because I wanted to selfishly I wanted to borrow his credibility now that I had access to him and use it to sort of grow my business. And so towards the end of the interview with grant, we were wrapping up. And I just said, I don't know where it even came from him. But I was like, grant, so much fun, man, hey, I'm going to be down in Miami for a few months later this year, I'd love to record another episode with you, in person at your studio. Does that sound good? Right? We're at the end of a conversation. So we're kind of riding high. And he's like, yeah, man, that sounds great. And I had it recorded. So I clicked it. And I sent it to his team. And I wasn't even planning to be in Miami, I had nothing booked, no dates, nothing. And I said, Hey, um, I sent it to his team. I said, Grant said, he's down for an in person pod. I'm going to be here from this date to this date, I gave them like a three month window to pick from, and I said, Pick any date that works for you, and I'll make it happen. And they picked one. And then I booked my tickets and I flew down and I got to spend time with grant. And so hopefully he doesn't watch this.

Adam Liette
But I'll tell you what, if he does grant call me now. Yes, yeah, call out on next. Yeah, it was, um,

Nick Hutchinson
dude, his his in person charisma and energy is off the charts. It's something that I've almost never experienced with another person. When he looks you in the eyes. And he's talking to you, he makes you feel like, you're the only person in the world that sounds kind of goofy. But it's a level of charisma that I don't think the average person understands grants customer is not the person buying the $200 sales course. And, you know, hating on his G Wagen, or whatever. Like he's selling to accredited investors, meaning they've got a minimum of 250,000, sometimes 10s of millions to invest with them. And he's doing real business with real people who do their due diligence. But on social media, you know, he's got a team of 10 people that manage it, he gets all the hate, and he's grant, whatever. But man, that guy was skilled in person, just like lasered in. He could have said anything, and I would have been like, Yeah, I'll buy it. You know? It is so cool.

Adam Liette
Oh, man. And there is when you meet when you meet someone like that, it does have that presence. It's like, holy crap. And I'm me personally, I'm studying him. I'm like, now I'm gonna like, oh, I need to watch some more Grant Cardone, because like, he does have this ability to just pull you in. I was, I was talked, I talked about Tony Robbins earlier. I was watching this YouTube video of him last night. And it's just like, that ability to just capture someone. And in that moment, be like sold a soul. Yeah, with them. It's this weird way of connecting. And to bring it full circle. Like that is worth becoming an author, reading from someone reading other people. It's that way of connecting. It's it's such a deeper level. And it's looking right into their soul. And when we can do that more and more, become practice that whole world is going to open to you, including you guys who want instant gratification. It will be yours eventually.

Nick Hutchinson
Eventually it will right I mean, money makes pretty much anything accessible. There's a great chapter in a book called who not how by Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan. And there's literally a chapter titled called like you don't have a problem if you have money or something like that. And it's about delegation. But Money solves a lot of problems. And you can have that instant gratification. But sometimes you need to sacrifice that short term instant gratification in order to get it in the long term.

Adam Liette
Love it, man. This has been so much fun, Nick, I'm so grateful our paths crossed. Such an inspiring journey that you've been on, and definitely eager to stay in touch. And hopefully, not too long, I'll be sending you a copy of my own book. Because now you got a little fire under my butt to get on with it already. I tell you the one thing I'm worried about the reason I think the one thing I've been like holding off on, it's like, I've read too many Navy SEAL books. And like, they all start the same. Hey, I was in buds, and I cannot write my, my book has to start with my Army career. It just that's where this all began. But I had not write another book about training in the military, I just won't.

Nick Hutchinson
Well, psychological warfare is a different angle, right. I mean, whether it's Goggins or Jocko, or any of those guys, you're right, they all start with very similar messages. But I don't know maybe you have like a cool. Like, it reminds me a little bit of Chris Voss, who wrote never split the difference. former FBI hostage negotiation is like that was a different angle on an intense story. So maybe you can find something like that.

Adam Liette
I have to reread that book. Now. It's over there. Right there. I'll pick it up and reread the intro. For sure. Yeah, I love it, man. Good. Oh, just

Nick Hutchinson
thank you for the opportunity. You know, a big a big theme in my book, Rise of the reader is gratitude. Gratitude has changed everything for me in so many different ways. And you can read about some of my favorite gratitude practices in that book. But I'll just take a moment and say thank you, to you, Adam. And for the audience. If you're still listening, thank you for making it this far. One thing that I learned last year in a big way is that is that a lot of times, like a lot of times impact is only felt through feedback. And so if you're listening, and you've never reached out to Adam and said, Hey, I love the show. It's changing my life. Thank you so much. Like go ahead and use this as an excuse to do so. Because podcasts like this, they take a lot of work to edit and get uploaded and do research on people. And I love the format Adams So yeah, if you're listening and you've made it this far, like show some love there or view and maybe shoot him a DM or something like that and tell him what the show's done for you. But anyway, Adam grateful for you, man, I really am.

Adam Liette
Now you did my whole outro. But I do have to now ask where? Yeah. Where can people find more about you? Where Where can they find your book and get in touch with you.

Nick Hutchinson
The book Rise of the reader is available in all online retailers. You know, wherever you buy books a lot, a lot of physical ones too. But just Google it rise of the reader, Nick Hutchison, grab a copy, read the physical paper book, if you want the audio, the audio goes well with the physical book you could do both at the same time. And, you know, our largest community is on Instagram at book thinkers. If anybody wants a custom book recommendation from me. So one of my favorite things to do is play like book matchmaker. So DM me on Instagram, tell me a problem that you have that you just can't get rid of, or tell me a skill that you want to build and I will provide a custom book recommendation to you.

Adam Liette
Have it man? It's so cool. Awesome. It's been so much fun. Nick, thanks again for your time and look forward to staying in touch and good luck in the rest of your year. As we barrel on through. We're recording this end of January. It'll be a couple months till it's out but I'm sure we're just going to be that much further down the pathway and with a lot more good books under our belt. Absolutely.

Nick Hutchinson
Thank you