When looking at your company, what are the things that matter the most to your growth?

If you’re like most entrepreneurs, we tend to focus almost solely on our revenue numbers. But that only works up to a point. When you’re revenue starts to exceed your ability to deliver, it’s already passed time to start thinking about your operations.

Which is why I was excited to bring Donna Dube onto the podcast to talk about operations. Donna is a certified Director of Operations, business growth strategist and host of the CEO Amplify podcast. She works with established online service based business owners who are ready to make a bigger impact and maximize their profit.

We explore:

- How to use a goal-centered approach to create KPIs that matter to the growth of the company

- Why data can be your best friend, or worst enemy, depending on how it’s used inside your business

 - Secret tips to discover the tasks that you need to start delegating now to achieve the growth you desire

- How to allow yourself to still have creative freedom by creating an idea parking lot
6 game changing habits that fuel growth and allow entrepreneurs to get out of the weeds and day to day operations and become confident leaders steering their ship.

This episode was an absolute joy and I look forward to staying in touch with Donna through the journey.

Links

CEO Power Hour: https://ceoamplify.ca/ceo-power-hour

Register for my Virtual Happy Hour: https://www.adamliette.com/virtual-happy-hour

Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com

Activate The Warrior Within https://www.adamliette.com/awaken-the-warrior

Transcript

Adam Liette
What's going on smooth operators, thank you for joining me today it's going to be a fun one. As always, as we get to explore more and more of the things that make these businesses we call our, our lives, our passions, the thing that wakes us up at three in the morning, you know who you are, I know who you are, because I'm the same way, right? We're all

you know, this is not a job, let's just like like, just like settle that right? First and foremost, what we do is not a job, this is a passion. This is what animates us. A good friend of mine once said, you know, that idea that business, it's not personal, it's business. For most of us, it's absolute bull crap, because what we do every day is some of the most personal things that you're ever going to see from us. But what is really, that's going to propel our business forward, we know the marketing side of things, right? We know, like all the super sexy funnels we can do, and VSL as a man, have you tried this new AI thing. And those are all super cool and great, until this magic thing that's gonna happen, you're gonna break your business, you're gonna break it in half, and anyone that you currently have on your team, vas, part timers, whatever, you're gonna break them to, it's kind of a fun thing when it happens, and it's gonna drive you crazy. But that's what happens when the marketing catches up with what your business operations can do. And when that happens, and you're not prepared for it, let me tell you, from experience gonna hit you right in the middle of the forehead like a shovel, and you're not going to know what to do, because suddenly have all these clients that you've sold to that you can't serve. And it's going to feel like the worst possible thing, not just because of the fact that you made a promise, and you want to fulfill on that promise. But also, because it's I mean, that's part of your soul, right? That's part of what you identify as is that person that goes out and gets it. But if I could go back and tell three years ago, Adam what to do, okay, was it three is maybe three or four years ago. But I remember the exact moment when my marketing took off. And I realized that my company couldn't keep up with it. And that led me down this path of figuring out my business operations, figuring out how to grow these things in concert. So my team and my operations, they were like, one kind of grew faster than the other depending on the day of the week, depending on the cycle, depending on what we had going on. But anytime I was looking at something marketing, I was asking the realistic question, can my company do this, and that is where your business operations are going to save your butt. And to be honest, they're going to propel you even further than you ever imagined possible, which is why I'm bringing Donna Dube onto the podcast. She is a certified Director of Operations Business Growth strategist and host of the SEO amplify podcast. She works with established online service based business owners who are ready to make a bigger impact and maximize their profit. Donna, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing from the great almost soon to be cold and snowy north?

Donna Dube
Wonderful. Thanks, Adam. So glad to be here.

Adam Liette
Fantastic. I'm geeking out we're in the pre show discussion. And we're just like pinging back and forth. It was like, Oh my gosh, here we go. So if we go down rabbit holes today, don't say I didn't warn you. But this could be one of those episodes, you're gonna want to bookmark there, because listening to it once or twice might be what you need, because some of this stuff, it's I'm still learning from podcasts and courses that I took two years ago, I'm still going back to Mike, holy crap. Still learning. And that's what's fun, fun about it. So Donna, I'd love to know more about your background, what brought you into this space as a as a multi Business Director of Operations?

Donna Dube
Yeah, thanks. So it's interesting, Adam, you know, many of us have a windy journey to get where we are. And I certainly have one of those. I actually started my career in nursing. And so I was an ICU nurse for a number of years. And if you think about it, that's, you know, serving Yes, but there's also some project management there in terms of managing the patient day to day. I have always been a planner, I've always liked to map things out. I always like to see the big picture and factfinder through and through. So operations was really what drew me to the online world and I started off as a project manager. But I found when I was working with my clients, I wanted to go deeper. So I was brought in to just you know, manage this project over here but I was like, but what about an over there and this and that? And so I moved from there into director of a Operation so that it could really work on a deeper level with my clients and their businesses in terms of helping them build that operations and helping them move forward in that area. So you know, hiring, managing the team, KPIs, finances, all the good things. So yeah, that's, that's where I hang out now. And I love it.

Adam Liette
That is so cool. Because I've noticed, I talked to operators and second commands all the time. And we all have these, like, eclectic backgrounds that brought us here. Now, it wasn't a straight line for anyone. And funny thing is, you know, what got me into marketing data. You know, my mother was an ICU nurse for 38 years, and became the Director of Nursing at her hospital. Okay, and started an online business teaching NCLEX prep courses and continuing education courses. i She was my first client. And that's how I got started down this online marketing industry.

Donna Dube
Interesting. Neat. Yes.

Adam Liette
And I will say the organizational skills needed by nurses, holy crap. Like, I've never taken NCLEX for those of you listening, that's like the board certification test. I've never taken it. But I've done the whole review. I mean, I, I want to pass it, but I could do some damage. Yes. So cool. Like you start as project manager, and then what you said, there's a key word in there. And because I think so often,

Donna Dube
yeah, if I read ELS for the 17th, time to try to be like, okay, like, a lot of times when we think OpSec, it gets relegated into that project management role. But it's so much wider than that. So what was what was some of the things that when you moved out of project management, that was like some of the first things that you took on? That was a more natural transition for you? Yes. 100%. So what I found, especially with I was working with mostly online business owners at the time, and they were trying to make decisions without having any objective data. So trying to make decisions about, Oh, should I be on 17 social media channels for only one? Should I hire someone else? Or not? Do I have a budget? I don't know. And so when they would come to me asking, you know, my opinion, and I don't want to give my subjective opinions, I'm like, Well, what is the data say? Well, you're posting 6000 times on this channel. Are you seeing any return on investment? Well, I don't know. I have no idea. So data was one of the major things I moved into right away to help those clients. Because, again, it was more out of survival for me, because they were asking me, What should I do? And I certainly did not want to just give a subjective answer. Oh, we'll pick this one today. So yes, really helping them see that data, whether it's going in the back end of Google Analytics, or looking at our email service provider, or, you know, looking at our team, do we have the right people in the right seats, mean, whatever that was, but really helping them get that objective evidence to then make an informed decision.

Adam Liette
It's interesting, I've been on this, like own personal like data, inquiry this these last couple of days, from the marketing perspective, to be able to make like accurate estimates and looking at omni channel marketing strategies. But doing it from a very, very data driven perspective. So it's kind of like, in reverse. That being said, data is one of those honey pits, like it can take you down the factory of sadness. Like what Yes. What have you found to be a useful way of filtering the noise out or like organizing the data that actually matters? Versus like, the whole spreadsheet?

Donna Dube
Yes. 100%. And I think, again, it depends on the client. Some are certainly more willing and able to go down that road, others, it's more, what do you say their business is their baby? And when they hear something that they don't like, it's very difficult sometimes to swallow. Right? So what would i Yeah, truthful. So what I try and do is let's attach what metrics we want to cover to what our goals are. So if our goal is that we want to increase the amount of people in our in our membership by 10%, from last year, then we're going to measure that, right, we're going to find where that data is. And we're going to track that over the next 12 months. If our goal is that we want to, you know, expand our team by X amount, then that's what we're going to track. So whatever we set up as our strategic plan in terms of our goals for the next 12 months. That's where we're going to start with our metrics because it's so true. There's so many data points today, and you know, it's a huge rabbit hole and you can get lost in it right? Even those of us who like it can get lost in it. So Really, if we narrow down and focus, okay, what are the goals that we really want to accomplish this year in the next six months, whatever, 90 days, whatever you do in terms of your goal planning, break that down and say, Okay, what metrics to actually track? So I know if I reach that goal, most people automatically think of revenue. Right? Great revenue. Well, I have a little bee in my bonnet about revenue, but we'll get into that later. But I think that it's great to have a revenue goal, but what action steps are we taking to get to that goal, right, so just say I have X amount, I want to get X amount of revenue, well, that's wonderful. But it's not going to happen by just sitting, we actually have to do something to make that happen. So much more important is what is the plan to get to that revenue goal? And that's where the metrics come in.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. So working backwards from a goal oriented position, and saying, Okay, you establish this goal, what do we need to measure in order to do it? Which will then what's kind of like both in the same conversation? Like, what am I going to do to get there, and therefore I have something to measure from, or you can do it the other way around, meaning I'm gonna measure this, so I need something to impact it. Which is kind of cool. Because now you like, you're bored. You're like birthing lines of effort or, or activities, tactics out of a necessity for data, just kind of like a backwards way of doing it. But I think I like it.

Donna Dube
Yes, I do, too. So and I think the important thing to remember is that as we move forward in our business, there are going to be tons of ideas that are going to pop in our head, or that someone else is doing or we think is really genius. But again, we have to bring that back to one of my goals. And where am I going right? We need a GPS for our business that has to be clear and upfront. First, and if those wonderful wild ideas don't fit with the where that GPS is going, and has to go in the idea parking lot and leave it there until it does align.

Adam Liette
I've used that before the idea of parking? I don't know have you used that term before? But I like it. When you when you talk about the idea of parking lot, how does that look from a tactical perspective? And is it just like something in your project management system that you just let sit there? Or are you documenting it? Like what is the parking lot at a tactical level?

Donna Dube
Yes. So for sure, I encourage you guys to put it in their project management tool, if you they can't do it themselves, have someone on the team, get it in there. But more importantly, put it in there by have a set time when it's going to be reviewed, right? Because there's no point dumping a bunch of things in there and never looking at them. So I strongly encourage a 90 day planning session because I find most of us set up 12 month goals in January, and December whenever you know, it's first. And then we forget, by March, if you ask most entrepreneurs what their goals were, they probably can't remember half of what they set up in January, because it's just too long and too big to keep in our in our heads. So if we set it up for you today, so every 90 days, we go back to that idea parking lot. Okay, what was on there? Is there something in there that yeah, now I really want to do this because it fits where now I have the team that has a skill set to be able to implement this and make it happen.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. And I you you listeners have heard this before. Like I actually don't recommend the annual planning cycle for most of you all, because you don't have that. It's it's this thing in reverse. Like you don't have the data to backup a 365 day play, you know, and every business book, you'll tell you will be talking about your annual goals. I'm like, brother, like you got them yet. And you can make them all you want. They might last a quarter. Yes. And then the next quarter, they're blown up. But that 90 day cycle, I really like it. From partially from the I can establish quantifiable actually achievable goals in a 90 day period versus these pie in the sky. I'm gonna make $10 million tomorrow goals. Yes. But you also have the energy to keep up with them. Like you can do like ridiculous things for 90 days. You'd be amazed. Yeah. And so it's it's this perpetual, like recycling thing that you get with your team to I think,

Donna Dube
yes, and there's this, I'm not gonna have it right. But there's a saying something about, we think we can do less than we can in a year. Right. And we can actually do more than we can in a short time. So I just think, really being able to break that down into bite sized chunks. And it also helps when you have a team because you can see in the team. Okay, this is where we're rowing for the next quarter. These are our priorities. Yeah, right. And so everyone's moving together rather than thinking Oh, I thought we were still doing that or I thought we were doing this. So it helps keep everyone in the same lane.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. So then we have to break it down though. Don't we go As we get into this, like we're in our 90 day, but then we have to break it down even further. And that I think, is the key area where a good ops manager is or director of ops or whatever you want to call it integrator don't call it integrator. I won't call it into Yes, that's, that's a no, no, I don't like integrator term. And the reason why Don, I didn't share this with you, I was an integrator. So when I was first in this game, we were I mean, I always made the integrator like 400 grand a year in revenue, and everything was fine. It was when I hit that 1.21 point 4 million. It almost crushed me. And if you all out there think is stronger than I am? Well, whatever. We don't need to have a measuring contest. But the point is, it breaks at some point. It's too much on one person. So to start to break it down, like how do you give that vision to the team? And how do you how do you like, actually break that down into more tangible outputs?

Donna Dube
Yeah. And so what I like to do is then keep going in terms of that reverse engineering. So it took our 12 month, we now got 90 Day goals. Now we're gonna break that down into monthly goals, and then weekly actionable steps. And those go in our project management tool. And they go in there with an assignee, so someone they're assigned to, and also a due date. No putting anything in there without an assignee and a due date. Those are the rules. Yes. Because that just makes it clear now, okay, these is what this is what my team is working on, or this is what Sally Sue was working on this week. Right? So when Friday comes, it's clear that Sally Sue do ABC? No, she didn't. But she contacted me on Thursday and had a problem with you know, whatever the issue was, right? So it's clear weekly, what's happening, you're not going months on end, and then realizing, Oh, that wasn't actually done. Right? Right. So it's again, chopping that up continuing to chop it up until we get weekly actionable steps that then the team can take and run with.

Adam Liette
And I love that concept. I've used it to yell mixed effect, mostly because I wasn't always, you know, hey, we're not infallible either in operations. So like, sometimes having to learn things the hard way that whole like assigning something to someone and making sure there was a due date. Yep. Learn that one the hard way. That's the fun part about this whole adventure cash. I'm gonna spending way too many of my shortcomings on this episode. But I want to be radically transparent with y'all. Because, like, everything that Donna and I are bringing, I think the reason we are so passionate about it right now is because it's hit us in the face before. And so now it's like, I have my established rules. I won't break them. And this is what happens. Yeah, like most of y'all, like most of my most of y'all are marketers, I know that. Like, I have a rule in marketing, what used to still do, like, I won't do a big promotion without an order bump and an upsell variant, it's a rule. And I've ran hundreds of promotions using that rule. So if you have roles like that, for your own marketing, you need them for your ops to Yes, and the good news. So I want to visit that because we keep referring back to that team that's helping us helping propel this. And when we looked at data, that was the one that's the intangible. whereas all the other data we're looking at is very, very numbers. It's black and white. 2.4% conversion rate is a 2.4 No matter how you're massaging it. But how do you use data to look at a team, which is much more subjective to make recommendations on growth or realignment, or or however, we're changing things?

Donna Dube
Right. So there's a couple things we can do. I mean, first off superficially, we can look at the hours if we have hourly workers in our team. So how many hours are they putting in, compared to how much we're spending? Right? So we can see what our expenses are, in terms of the the number of hours they're putting in? And are our team at capacity currently? Or do we have Sally over here who could be doing double what she's currently doing? You know, if we were able to delegate things to her, so looking at that capacity really helps when you're wanting to bring in something new or wanting to grow, you need to know if you have room for that in terms of your team. Beyond that, I really do like the EOS model in that sense of right people and right seats, right. So taking the time to actually go through and say and I love their little cheat sheet that they have for it where, you know, do they have it? Do they got it? Do they want it and really looking at okay, this team member is currently doing Is Is that where their zone of genius is? Is that really their skill set? And if it is, am I capitalizing and giving them, you know the best that they can do in that area, or am I holding on to something over here that they could actually use and do and do better than I could with it. So just really making sure we have the right people in the right seats. And a lot of times, that's going to look messy. So if you haven't done that before in your business in a while, it's going to be messy, because you brought in people as you were growing, and their roles expanded as you were growing. But you didn't actually sit down to write a real job description for what Sam and John do, right. So expect some messiness there, but get through it, the messy is in the middle, as I like to say, because when you get to the other side, it's going to give you and your team, so much clarity about who you do have, and if they're currently in the right role. So I strongly encourage having a job description for every person in your business, including you as CEO. So that it's clear right from the get go. This is, you know, what I'm expected to do. And then it makes it so much easier for your team members to because they clearly know what their roles and responsibilities are.

Adam Liette
I love it. And then reviewing those job descriptions on a periodic basis to I mean, just like you reviewed, we talked about this, the parking lot of ideas, you have to review them and schedule it. I mean,

Donna Dube
and schedule it. Oh, man, schedule it. Yeah. Just touched on another one there.

Adam Liette
Like there's wonderful calendars we have can be a hindrance or a tool, use it the other way.

Donna Dube
Yes, it's so true, right? I like to call your calendar, your scheduling ninja. So it can either work for you or against you. And if you're like me, I want the ninja working for me. So it's so true. And I think lots of times as business owners, you know, we start out and we want the cash, right, we need the cash flow. So we're willing to do anything at almost any point in time. But as we grow, no, you need to be setting up that calendar, like a true CEO and making it work for you.

Adam Liette
Like the biggest mistake I ever made of my calendar, Donna was I filled it. I put like these four hour blocks of like, focus time, and I give myself an assignment. And it felt like total frickin work. Like I could have the space to be creative, because I filled up my darn calendar. Whereas now I have just my obligations, like, I need to do this, I need to do this. I'm on this meeting, I'm on that meeting, I'm delivering this to a client. I'm doing a podcast interview, like actual things that require me to be directed in a certain way. And then I have this like, great, I have this white space in between. Yes. And it's so fun.

Donna Dube
And I think that's a myth sometimes is that business owners think, oh, I need to work harder, right? To get to grow. I need to put in more time need to hustle need to grind the whole nine yards. I don't believe that. But I think that's a myth sometimes. And therefore my calendar needs to be 100% busy. Yeah, I can only have a few breaks here and there. And that's such a myth, because we need time, especially as creative visionaries to have a step back. And to just let our mind be free. Because when you do that, I mean how many entrepreneurs say they get an A great idea in the shower, or in the middle of the night or? Right? When they're doing something outside of their business. That's when things pop.

Adam Liette
And I think that there's there's that G word, the grind word. Like we attach I think you might have nailed the difference done. I've been trying to put my finger on it for a couple of weeks. Because I've been in like you could call my schedule the last month a grind. Okay, because I've been doing like I've had three or four all nighters. I've been attached to the computer till to backup at six that kind of thing. But yeah, it's all been from a place of like high output, high energy and free space that I was compelled to create in versus space that I filled in.

Donna Dube
Yes. Right. And if that's of choice that if it's your choice that you know what, Saturday afternoon, not much is happening with my family, I really want to focus and get this thing, whatever it is, you're doing done, then great. Right, but you shouldn't be forced to have to work on the weekend.

Adam Liette
Right. And that calendar can do that for you. Oh my goodness.

Donna Dube
Yes. Oh,

Adam Liette
so as if we're moving through kind of sequentially like the business growing you're adding team members you're putting I'm in the right places, which is great, like everyone's fulfilled. And then the business owner. We all resemble that remark, as I say, like, we can't help ourselves, we want to get our hands back into this stuff that we just delegated. How do we, like, probably addressed this more from the operator side? Like if you're if you're running the company, and yeah, that CEO keeps on getting in, you're getting in your Cheerios, how to get them to leave you the heck alone and trust you to do what you're supposed to be doing.

Donna Dube
Right. Right. So I think there's a couple things here, Adam, one is, and it was a business mentor of mine who said, you need to run a brilliantly boring business. So when you've got something and it's working, right, your team is growing, you're making revenue, it's working, don't mess with it. Right? Because it's working, if it's not broken, don't fix it. And so I think lots of times as visionary CEOs, we want to bring the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, right, but what we've got is working, let's sit with it for a bit. So what I as an operator, encourage the CEOs I work with to do is to find a passion project, or to outside of their business, to help that creative energy that they have the new thing that they want to develop, put some of that energy towards something that's not related to their business. So that could be Well, I've always wanted to do paintings, great. Go learn how to paint, right, where I want to develop something in my community, I want to start a charity or I want to do whatever that looks like for them. But to get a passion project where they can put some of that energy and let their business roll a little bit, where they're always creating something new and different.

Adam Liette
Huh. Have you ever said no to you?

Donna Dube
Oh, yeah. All the time.

Adam Liette
All the time. What?

Donna Dube
Yes, all the time. But that's, that's the role of operator, right? Yes. But to be that balancing act.

Adam Liette
We got to at one point, we grew the company to the point where I as the operator had to also do that creative thing. Like I had offloaded so much. And I was like, You got to get out of everyone's Cheerios, and let them cook. Yeah. But I knew I was so attached to the outcome. I put myself into like a solo like new marketing initiative I was taking on and ended up crushing it. It was ridiculous how well it worked. Like, like extra half a mil in like four months. Yeah. But it was just me it was I owned it. And I got to create the process and then offload it and delegate it, which is fun.

Donna Dube
Yes, yeah. And it's so true. I think sometimes we are always, you know, wrong. Because we're on this hamster wheel when we start when we finally get to the level where, you know, we're growing and we're scaling. We think we have to keep running on the hamster wheel. Yeah, right. And I think sometimes it's better just take a step back. And let's look at the big picture. Yes, of course, our environment is going to change, like the online world is not the same now, as it was four years ago, right. And it's not going to be the same now as it is four years from now. So why we love it. Right? Right. So it's not just put your feet up, and I'm done. Like you, you will have to be tweaking and evolving and changing, that's part of the business. But you know, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

Adam Liette
That being said, we're gonna get, we're gonna get messy, like, it's gonna, we're gonna break it in our own way, especially once where I just mentioned, I had to delegate things I was doing. Yes. And for me, delegating was the most unnatural thing I'd ever done in my life. And I think it was born out of this line that we tell ourselves. And if you're hearing out there, and you're nodding, I feel your nods. Okay. Oh, I do this better than anyone. So I can call BS on that all day and night, however, I'd love to hear like Donna, how do you I'm sure you've encountered that I'm sure you're gonna encounter tomorrow, and probably the next day, have a CEOs or a team members. So I can't possibly delegate that. Like, how do we not only get over that, but how do we decide like what we're going to delegate how we're going to pull things off our desk?

Donna Dube
Yes, yes. I'm glad you brought this up, because it is definitely something that I have struggled with in working with CEOs over time, right. And so what I've developed is what I call a CEO Score. And it's basically if you think about all the tasks that have to be done in your business, that can go into buckets. One is maintenance. And one is growth. So maintenance tasks, your admin, your customer service, setting up your lead pages, your funnel, you know, making sure you're invoicing, you're getting paid all those things, your growth tasks, this is CEO level work, networking, your joint ventures, sales one to many, right? If you're doing one on one sales calls, whatever that looks like, but those higher level tasks that you're not going to be delegating to another team member strategic planning, right vision work. And so what I've actually had some of my CEOs do is actually write down in the week, what they're doing, because of those tasks that they think I can't delegate this I do this better than anyone else, usually fall into that maintenance bucket. Yes. Right. So if we write down and when we actually see we visually see how much time we're spending in the maintenance side, versus the growth side. And if we want our business to grow, as CEO, we have to spend more time in growth. Definitely, there's going to be some time when you might have to do some maintenance, but we're aiming to move out of that and more time spent in growth. And so when it's visual, and it's in front of you, yeah, it's no longer about well, I can do it better than you know, John, it's more about where's the best space for me as CEO to be spending my time. And the other side of that is, what's your hourly rate as CEO? Okay, so they'll say what their hourly rate is, right? So is that we're spending two hours in Canva messing with an image at that hourly rate? No, you wouldn't pay anyone at that hourly rate. damage the way you want. So it just becomes so you know, okay. So clear to them. When you when you present it objectively like that, then it's like, okay, yeah, I still do well at this. But I need to be spending my time over here.

Adam Liette
I don't know Canvas awfully I hate Canva. Actually, no, it's not anything against Canva. I actually like Canva as a tool, because it's really effective, where I can share it directly with my VA who does all my image work? Because I hate Canva. Because I suck at it.

Donna Dube
Yes, yes. And but that's good to recognize, right? I think that's important that we recognize where our skills really are and where they aren't. And if we are CEO, fine. We still may be inside graphic artists on the side. But we have to look at where's my time going? And what's the best use of my time.

Adam Liette
And I think it you hit something particular there, like you're going to keep a certain level of Yukata maintenance task, like on your plate, because it's it's, it's kind of a mix, guys like to pretend you can live in 100%. Strategic, you're going to drive yourself crazy after a while. Yes, but it's like some of your team members will be 100% tactical oriented or maintenance oriented. And that's where they need to be. And that's quite frankly, all most, some of them want to be like they want to be maintenance focus. And I find that it's that mix that adjust the further you move up to where if you're a CEO, it might be a 9010 or nad 8020 mix, where some of those maintenance tasks is kind of like a pressure valve from your strategic blank brain going on full. Let me go push buttons for a little bit, right. Yeah. Very cool. Oh, I love it. The tool I use is like evaluate. It's so brutally painful. Donna, I should probably switch this up. But it's a it's a time study. And you. You write down everything you do in 15 minute increments. 24 hours a day for two weeks.

Donna Dube
Oh, two weeks, okay. I've seen weeks, three or five days, but two weeks is long. Yeah, two weeks

Adam Liette
is long. Yeah. Then you put it on this calculator I made and it spits it right out. And the first time I personally did it myself. I'm like, Oh my gosh.

Donna Dube
It's such an eye opener, right? I actually encourage my clients to do it. Twice a year would be great, but at least once a year because it is such an eye opener. And you think oh yeah, I'm wasting time on social No, but I'm not even talking about scrolling social. It's actual things. You know, and here's all this only takes me five minutes. Yeah, 20 minutes later,

Adam Liette
only minutes later. And five more of those later. Yes. Yes. You marked that hour on your calendar and it turned into three. And now you're drained and you're like what's going on?

Donna Dube
Yes. Yeah, you know, it's the same item to me. It fits with the same thought processes. They say eat the frog first. Right. When you get up you start your Day you turn on your computer, what are your priorities, not to be checking all the emails or DMS and your Slack communication, right? You've got a priority as a CEO for the day, work on it. Do that first. So that whatever fires and disaster come later, you've got your priority done. These things are not staying in my ear today at all, are they? Sorry. Right. So then you are focusing on your CEO level work. First thing in the day, getting some of that through your team emails, your slack, all that that's going to come you're gonna get there. But if you spend your day in your email in your inbox, you won't have any priorities done. Right? And then you're gonna say, Oh, but I didn't have time for.

Adam Liette
And I think where that becomes a habit unto itself, like, training yourself to do that. And it's a hard thing to train yourself to do it. I I'm going to, like pretend Yeah, I do it all the time. I'm like, really good at not jumping. No, we all suck at it. Let's admit it. But, but we suck at it, because it's a habit. And it's something that we grew accustomed to. In the military, we call it death by PowerPoint, or react. What was it we call it? Battle drill? Outlook. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, like in the in the infantry, you have these battle drills, you practice or like, I moved this way and shoot, you move that way and shoot well, we also call a battle draw outlook, because we're of Allah tells us, that's where we shoot, right? silly stories. But we train ourselves to do that it becomes ingrained, it becomes a habit. That being said, you shared with me that you have belief, six game changing habits, that will help fuel growth and allow entrepreneurs to get out of the weeds. I got to hear these game changing habits.

Donna Dube
Sure, yes. So we talked about some of them. But number one is really that focus on growth level tasks. So looking at maintenance versus growth, and how am I as leader of this company spending my time. Number two is that scheduling ninja, so our calendar, really making it work for us having open time when we can, you don't have that creative space to be able to think and develop outside of this meeting that this objective, right. So having that time, and if you're someone who struggles with trying to put a dedicated task and getting it done in the week, then sure, set aside time on Thursdays to do your, whatever it is content planning, if that's what you need, right. But allowing that white space and allowing that calendar to work for you. So your team and your clients know, I can be reached at this time. After that, my business is closed, right? You will hear from me tomorrow, I really having that space. The third one is what I call the CEO Power Hour, which is really a CEO date with ourselves. So if we think about big businesses, you know, the CEO is meeting with the board, it's meeting with the VPS. Okay, what's happening in sales, what's happening in marketing, what's happening in ops. And so when we have a smaller company, we still need to be doing that. So having that hour set aside every week without fail, to really review and reflect, see where we are and where the business is going. And set what our top three priorities are going to be for that week. And then communicating with our team. So that's Power Hour. And then the last one is really about self care and some support that you may need, right? So that could be within your business that could be at home. So for example, you're traveling that week. So you need you know your right hand person or someone else to take over a few things in your business that week, because you're you're not as available as normal, or you're traveling and so you need your significant other to do a few things at home that you might normally do. Right? So just building that in and having some time to think about it and making sure that we are taking care of ourselves first because when we try and provide from an empty cup, it doesn't go well.

Adam Liette
And definitely like like having that person that's going to call you out on your BS helps in that one. Whatever that relationship looks like to you, for me, it's like 3d. I have like triplicate where it's like a mastermind group. It's like a buddy that we just were accountability partners to each other and not like fake like just on Facebook. Like we get on calls with each other and call each other out on crap. Yeah. And then a coach and I think there's so much to take from that. Yeah, it keeps all the was other objectives in line? I think in so many ways? Yes. Yes. You put it six. I feel like it should be first.

Donna Dube
Fair enough. Yeah. And I think to think, you know, I can run this empire solo is, yeah, a mindset shift that you need to make, you can write. And so yes, you're brilliant at what you do. Yes, there's a lot of things, you know, but the sooner we realize that I need some support, and I need some help in different areas, and be willing to invest in yourself and in your business to make that happen. makes a huge difference.

Adam Liette
And I need to correct myself. I said, it should be first and right after I said it, I went, No, you're wrong. It is last because until you figure those other things out, you're not responsible enough or mature enough to realize it should have been first all along.

Donna Dube
Oh, there you go. See? So is six. Yes, you need to do the other things first.

Adam Liette
Yeah, right after set on like, you just said that. And like you never put it first until, like 10 minutes ago. So what are you talking about? Like, oh, yeah, the whole maturity because of things. Other works

Donna Dube
can be really simple, you know, simple as drinking my water or having movement every day, right? We can, we can be so sucked into this computer in front of us that it's like, no, life still happens. And it still needs to happen outside of running your business. And I think being able to let go and actually close the thing and say, No, I am taking personal time, or I'm going for a massage or whatever that is, you know, that you enjoy doing, but have those periods of joy in your life? Because otherwise, it's more like a job.

Adam Liette
Yeah. So we didn't get an entrepreneurship just to get ourselves a job. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's right.

Donna Dube
You got it. Right. Nobody thinks sometimes. We know that. You know, we know that in our heads. But if we actually look at our days and our weeks, are we living that?

Adam Liette
Yeah. Sure. Well, these are the hard questions that we want to be picture perfect answer all the time, and they're not. But that kind of speaks to the subject. It's messy. It's not perfect. And I think no matter where you're at, in this journey, I think part of part of the secret I think, is being okay with it not being perfect.

Donna Dube
Yes, yes. 100% and being willing to review and reflect and learn, and do it 1%. Better tomorrow, or next week, right? Because it is a journey. We're not going to be perfect. But each step we take moving as closer and getting closer is is. It's gold. I think so with being willing to hear the hard facts sometimes, yes. But learning from that and saying, Okay, what can I do to get 1%? Better, right, I'm launching again, what can we do to get a higher conversion rate than last time? Not triple and quadruple it? If we do great, but let's be realistic and say what can we do to get to the next level each step? Yeah.

Adam Liette
I love it. Donna, this has been an absolute joy. I knew it would be from the moment we started our pre calls like, Oh, this is going to be fun. And for all of you listening out there, I mean, like I said this, some of these I think the secret to some of these suggestions and some of these tactics is there's a certain level of obviousness to them. And yet, the application of it isn't always so obvious. It's like you hear it and you're like, Oh, that makes sense. Well, now go do it. And you'll be like, oh, yeah, there's more to it than that. There is and there isn't. So don't overcomplicate things, but I think if you're out there listening, and you're you're hearing things you're like, I'm gonna have to revisit that. Give yourself that permission. Give yourself the permission to like, explore it for a little bit, and maybe even fight with yourself about it a little bit, because it's it goes against, I think, some of the better instincts that made us good entrepreneurs to begin with at the start, like we have to start to reprogram to what we're going to do to become the entrepreneurs at the next level.

Donna Dube
Yeah, so Donna, oh, this thing is it's what do they say? What Got You Here Won't Get You right. We'll get

Adam Liette
you there. Right. Yeah, sure. I think I have that on a card somewhere around here. From one of my coaches. Yep. But it's true. Thank you so much, Donna. Where can the listeners find out more about you? I understand you have a you have an opt in for them to take to start on their own journey.

Donna Dube
Yes. So it's called CEO power hour, and they can find it at CEO amplify.ca. And it really will help you walk through if you're not already doing a CEO date or you're not sure what to do in that CEO day, then this Power Hour really walk you through. What am I supposed to be looking at? How do I do this? end So you can go through that PDF and we'll help you get started.

Adam Liette
antastic Donna, this has been so much fun. Thanks so much for joining us today. And best of luck on your ventures. And thank you for being out there doing what you're doing and anyone that gets chance to work with you. I'm sure it's a great experience for their company. Well,

Donna Dube
thank you, Adam. I appreciate the opportunity.