Behind every personality-driven brand is a rock solid second-in-command. The person that holds the team and operations together.

Having spent a number of years in this position, I’m all too familiar with what’s required to keep everything moving forward.

Which is why I was so excited to welcome Noor Barrage to the show! Noor was a founding partner of Impact School and became their operator as the organization began to grow. And it was through this collaboration that they were able to grow Impact School to a multi-million dollar enterprise that is having tremendous success and sustainable growth.

Discover:

- How to lean into our natural tendencies and strengths to have the greatest impact on the organization

- Why creating a solid relationship with your partner can help you develop the trust needed to grow the company

- The Chimp Paradox and how to use this strategy to gain collaborative decision making

- Why our mood and energy level is felt throughout the team and how to make sure we are putting our best foot forward

- Navigating focus time vs. time that she’s available for the team to enable us to move away from being in a reactive state

This interview is really inspiring with actionable steps for both CEOs and their second-in-command to create the energy needed to propel your company forward.

Impact School: https://impact-school.com/

Connect with Noor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noorvbarrage/

Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com

Activate The Warrior Within https://www.adamliette.com/awaken-the-warrior

Transcript

Adam Liette
This is the smooth operator Podcast. I'm Adam Liette, director of operations for a seven figure online business and eight year veteran of Army Special Operations. On this show begin with the tactical, nitty gritty of what it really takes to run a thriving online business. Because at the end of the day, operators lead the way. What's going on smooth operators Welcome to this week's episode, I have something I've been geeking out about all weekend, the time I'm recording this, it's like, oh, dark 30 On Monday morning, because that's the fun part about podcasting is we get to do this whenever we'd like and just fit it into our schedule. And we also get to connect with people all over the world. And as all of you know, like what we often see in a company like the front facing person is the person we see that's the head of the organization, especially if it's a personality driven brand. And we think of like the Russell Bronson's we think of the Alex or moseys huge, gigantic personalities that are running these brands. However, if you've been running a business like that for more than five seconds, you know that those huge giant personalities require a very, very strong and strong willed person behind them to help actually run the organization. There's a lot of terms that we use to describe that person. And I have recorded episodes on my issues with some of those terms. Because of what it allows us to do or not do in terms of our growth, I always call that person, the operator. So much falls on that person's lap on their back, the the pressure and intensity of running an organization like that, it really can't be discounted. Because there's a lot on their plate, and there's a lot they're trying to do. And they're trying to meet the demands and the expectations of their CEO and their team. It's coming from all angles, so requires a really strong person to do that. And in my travels, I've been very fortunate to get to meet some amazing operators that are doing just that. And I've been that person too. I was the operator for a multi seven figure organization for several years. So knowing that pressure, knowing what that person experiences and getting getting to hear things from their perspective, is so amazing, which is why I'm geeking out about this episode I get to bring on Nora barrage. Nora is the operator for the impact school, which they help people sell serve their services online using social media, their growth has been exponential, up to 400k per month right now. So tremendous growth that they're seeing. And I've ran into Nora first online in a Facebook group I belong to. And she was just really moving into this part of the journey. And so we got to connect there and now I get to bring her on to the show. So great to have you, Nora. How's everything moving? You're going today?

Noor Barrage
Good. I'm excited to be here. So thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. So looking forward to this. So let's jump straight in. You've been with your founding partner of the impact school, is that correct?

Noor Barrage
Yes, that's correct. So I've been at the company for it's coming up to four years now. And impact school kind of existed before it was It started out as the name of Lauren's podcast and then the company kind of evolved from that so we took the name from from the podcast itself.

Adam Liette
Gotcha. Okay. And Lauren Lauren Ticknor she's the front facing CEO of the organization. So she she has a fitness background right before she got into this part of her journey.

Noor Barrage
Yes, so Lauren had a fitness coaching business prior to moving into the online business coaching consulting space as did I so I had my own fitness business prior to moving into the online business space or the online business coaching and consulting space. So it's interesting how we both kind of came from the fitness world

Adam Liette
Yeah, and your your background is okay fitness coach. You have some other amazing parts of your background which we're gonna dive into I don't want to jump the gun on this however, so you guys partnered up started this how did she become the front facing CEO you become the operator was there like a natural I'm gonna do this you're gonna do this type of discussion or was it just like everyone fell into their respective geniuses?

Noor Barrage
Yeah, it happened very Are you naturally I would say, Lauren, you know, if you're in a room with her for a couple of minutes, you know that she's very much the archetype of the visionary, the front facing person, you know, she's extroverted. She's super chatty, you can talk to anyone about anything really. Versus myself, I'm much more introverted behind the scenes, social interactions kind of made me very, very nervous. I'm not super, you know, I don't like the events, they make me very, very anxious. And in terms of our areas of expertise, or kind of genius zones, however, we want to turn that we're very much kind of opposites. So it just made sense for Lauren to kind of focus more on sales and marketing. And for me to focus more on product clients success, us and then operations, and other everything around operations. I'm super, super organized, like naturally, I've always been that way. I have clinical OCD. And I think that really, really helps. And Lauren is kind of the opposite of that. So she thrives in chaos. You know, she hates calendars, like she doesn't like operating a, you know, under a calendar, she feels very constrained in that sense, versus I love like, my calendar is my lifeline. Like I depend on it. So yeah, so we're very, very opposite. And that kind of that relationship and that separation of what she does versus what I do happen very, very organically for us.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. So, Lauren, like, what I know, you guys have probably done disc profiles, like where are you at versus where is she on the desk?

Noor Barrage
We did a really interesting, I don't think this other ad, but we did a podcast episode with, I forget, I forget his name. But we've done all those tests, you know, the disk, the color that colors like red, blue, green, yellow, all of that. And we did one a couple of years ago, and this was like specifically targeted to I think entrepreneurs and in the workspace, I'll find the name and I'll send it over to you maybe to put in the show notes for anyone who's interested. And it kind of confirmed what we already knew, which is we're very polar opposites. So all the areas that she scored kind of highly in areas that I wasn't super strong at and vice versa. We both have very strong leadership, that tendencies. But I think that those tendencies are demonstrated in very, very different ways. So how she leads is very different than then to how I lead I think I'm more or people oriented when it comes to the team, and how I go about kind of navigating those relationships, versus Lauren is a little bit different. So yeah, I mean, whenever we've taken any sort of, you know, those tests, personality tests we've done as well. And those are really good one. Ray Ray Dalio is quite an extensive personality test. But that was really interesting. And you get kind of a report of how are you an organization? How are you in like people management? How are you in social settings, like all these different categories? Super, super interesting. It's a, it's a longer one, though. And again, like we scored very, very differently in, in everything that we've done, which, which, which makes sense, because the nice thing about our relationship is we complement one another. So I think that's why that partnership is so solid, because the things that I don't enjoy doing, I can and she's, you know, she really loves and she thrives in in those areas, vice versa. So you know, she can do certain things that are my forte, but it just drives her insane. And you know, it's not enjoyable for her at all. So I take charge of those things.

Adam Liette
Gotcha. Fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I've done talking about personality tests, I can't recall the number I've taken. There was one we had to take. It was it was during my army time when I was going through special ops selection. And it was like, oh, it's like 500 questions. And they would like, like, go against each other. Like, they just asked the same question in a different way trying to extract an answer out of you. It was weird. And then it was followed by this two hour insane interview and it was but you know, that was different line of work. They're trying to assess us for of course. Some I want to dive into. You've talked a lot about Lauren, and like the work that you guys have done, and I know from experience like that CO operator relationship. It's absolutely critical. It's what keeps the company moving forward? And how have you guys managed to build that relationship? Over the years? You've been working together? Are there some things that have really stuck out that helped propel that relationship to the next level?

Noor Barrage
And that's such a good question. I think, a couple of things. You said earlier, like, no one gives you a, a rulebook, there isn't, there isn't a manual, on how to do this, and how to do this at such a young age with, with no real roadmap or guidance. It's almost difficult. Well, I found it very difficult a few years back to get help and get support, because you would hear contradictory things from different people. And it would kind of, you know, you'd start going down one route, and then you would hear some, you know, you'd hear a podcast or you hear, you'd hear someone in the industry say something that would be countered to, you know, this path that you were on. So it was really, really challenging. And I think, you know, Lauren is such a influencer in the space, that having her go to events and hear things from different people made that more challenging, because, you know, she would come back from this event and be like, oh, this person, you know, has this new marketing strategy that we need to, you know, we need to implement right away, and, you know, it would just be very, very confusing. I think over the years trust has been something that has really saved us, it's very rare that one of us will move forward in a decision without the other one. Going, okay. Like, let's do this. I think it's happened. A handful of times, I can count on one hand, how many times that's happened, where one of us has said, No, we need to, we're gonna do this. And the other one hasn't been super on board. And whenever we've done that, it hasn't led to anything good. So we've learnt from that. So I think trust, when one of us says, Okay, no, this doesn't feel right. The other one takes that very, very seriously, and is like, okay, let's talk about this. Let's, I don't know who said this. I think maybe it was, if you've read the Chimp Paradox, it might have been from the Chimp Paradox, where we enter the arena, and we kind of have it out. And we, we, we just go at it, and we talk and we talk and we talk and we talk until the other person goes, Okay, that makes sense. Let's move, let's move forward on that. But very, very rarely do we move forward if the other person isn't, you know, completely on board. And I find it really hard to make decision, as well. Lauren is like, that doesn't feel good. And I know that she feels the same way. So you know, this has happened a few times when we've brought people on board. Lauren doesn't, isn't kind of involved anymore. With with hiring, that's more so what I would I take ownership of, but when she was there were a few cases where she she'd be very confident about a person and I wouldn't have that kind of gut instinct where I'm like, something feels really off here. And Lauren was like, no, no, like, I've heard from this person, they're going to be great. And I'm like, Okay. And again, it took me developing the confidence evidence to be like, No, it's not. And here's why. Which we now gotten to, but having that trust in each other, where if I say something, or she says something, the other person like listens, and like will drop everything to be like, what is it that you're seeing that I'm not seeing? Help me explain, help, help me understand. So I think the trust element has been really, really key for us. And that has just gotten stronger with time. And I think as well, we have a friendship outside of our professional relationship. And that is with two young women in a space that we're trying to navigate. And up until very recently, I don't feel like we had the right support. And we had people in our corner who really wanted to see us win and wanted to help us and had the right tools and infrastructure to allow us to succeed. So for us, I think I don't have anyone else in my life who kind of understands that I all my friends have very, you know, standard jobs my partner has kind of nine to five, a big bank. So it's kind of hard to be able to lean on people and go oh, today was a really tough day. And it's like, Oh, why don't you just switch off it's like, doesn't really doesn't really work. And so having a friendship where, you know, after a tough day, we can get on the phone and be like, I feel exhausted or, you know, I just, I feel like I'm running on really low battery. And she's like, I completely get it. I felt that today, like, let's disconnect, let's see, if we're together, let's let's go have some dinner, let's go for a long walk lads that make sure that we're taking care of ourselves and taking care of one another, so that we can be there. For the team for each other, I think it's very important for me that I am a good support for Lauren. And I think she would say the same in terms of her being there and being a supportive force for myself. So I would say trust and that friendship outside of our professional relationship has been really, really key for us over the years.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. I love every part of that. Especially the the idea that the relationship has been built through the operations of the business, it's been built through decision making, it's been built through in the trenches work. Like if you want to work together, better together, work together. It's like right there, where as I meet, so many that want to rule and like have things done by edict, if you will. And that comes on the operator side to where it's No, just that simple conversation of what this is why this isn't connecting with me, this is why I'm not feeling this way. Like that opens up the barriers. And I think part of the secret to why this has worked for you guys is that you're managing partners, like you're founded the company together, versus like, an external person that like came in. Whereas the operator role was, it was organic, it grew, you grew into it as the role expanded. As as I'm just kind of piecing things together. Very cool. And I love that you guys have that relationship. It's definitely inspiring. So for anyone listening out there, do this stuff, this stuff works. Building relationships is not just about going, I don't think it's just about like, oh, make sure you send a birthday card or something like that. There's so much deeper work to do. And that's what I found, not only in business, but also from my military experience. If you want to get better at operations go. Go do operations go to work together. And it works.

Noor Barrage
Yeah, I think that's so important. And I have almost struggled and kind of lesser now. But I still think there is an element of I struggled to kind of identify with at times and put myself into the kind of textbook operator category. And you'll understand this because you you're an entrepreneur as well. And you have like an entrepreneurial outlook on life and business. But I, you know, I move into every area of the business as needed. And I think some operators would find that a bit weird. They're like, Oh, but that's why are you doing sales? Like because that's kind of what's needed now. So why I wouldn't I'd like there's, there's an issue in our sales process. And I started out, one of the first things I did at the company was sales. So I have that skill set, it's I don't think it's the thing I enjoy most by any means. But if there's kind of a deficit that you see in the company, then you like, for me, it's just kind of a logical move to move into that area. So in this quarter for us, I am taking sales calls. And that a lot of people find that really odd and I'm like, Yeah, but surely, you know, as the operator, it's exactly what you said, it's like, if you want to be an operator, you do and you do as needed. And as is kind of required. If there's a deficit, you fill it, and you do whatever you can to kind of develop the skill set to be able to fill it as best as you can until you can find someone else or you can build the process to kind of come in and remove yourself from that. So for me, that's always been a little bit weird, because I've had comments from other operators who said on like, why, like you're taking sales calls like this is so strange. And I'm like, Is it Is it strange? It's uh, you know, and again, I think it goes back to my relationship with the company with Lauren is not kind of your standard textbook operator relationship. We are partners, and for me like the company is my baby as well. So if there's a deficit, it's a no brainer for me. I will jump in and I will do what I can to support and I think that anyone aspiring to be a really, really great operator I shouldn't be fearful of that, by any means.

Adam Liette
I love that so much. And I'm reflecting on my own journey and like, oh, yeah, I did that I did. Oh, yeah, that sounds familiar. Because even at the height of what we were doing, like 3 million a year, and I was doing sales calls, as we were expanding into that realm, we were doing, moved to high ticket. First person to do a sales call was me, before I was offloading it, and was I comfortable? Absolutely not. But we do our homework. And then we like you said, do, I think it's the key word, it's just do it? And you'll figure it out? And are you going to break it? Yeah, you're gonna make a big mess on the floor, and it's gonna be fine. And clean it up later. It's so inspiring. Oh, my goodness, I want to shift focus to that team, because you are the leader of the team, and ultimately looking and I think you have nine people now is that, is that accurate?

Noor Barrage
Yes. Where we will be nine at the end of the month, we're at eight right now.

Adam Liette
Fantastic. And I always loved for me, the team. It was the it was where I had the most hangups I had to get over having to be the leader of the team. And there was one pivotal moment in my, in my journey, where I was working with this coach Alex scharffen, who told me that the operator is the emotional leader of the team. And for whatever reason, when he told me that it like clicked and it went deep, and I became something I could embody. Do you have a similar experience? And what does it mean to you to be that leader of the team?

Noor Barrage
Yeah, I definitely have a similar experience, I would say, I think it's a lot of responsibility to bear. I think only recently have I understood the extent of what that really means. And I think only recently has Lauren understood the extent of what that means. And essentially like in, you know, for everyone listening, very simple way to kind of demonstrate this is if I'm having a bad day, or if I am not in the best headspace, and I show up to work. It is felt everywhere. And that, again, is a lot of responsibility to bear. But I think for me, what that has meant is that I've put more energy and more effort into making sure that I'm okay. And I'm prioritizing myself, my physical health, my mental health, my emotional well being, because if not, everyone else feels it. And that isn't okay with me, I don't want to be that person that shows up. And of course, we're all human, we all have bad days. But when you are the emotional leader of a team, you can't your laundry in front of everyone, because, you know, it affects everyone. And then the morale of the day is really low. Or, you know, it's so easy to, it's easy to feel as well, if I show up and I'm not 100% I'll get a message from Lauren, right after your energy wasn't there on the like, are you okay, what's going on? And I'm like, oh, like I, you know, I thought I was hiding it really well. And she's like, No, no, I don't think anyone else notice. But I noticed like what's going on? Are you okay? And I'm like, I've just had a, you know, a rough morning or this is going on in my personal life, etc. Her and I do really well with checking in with one another. So if I do wake up, and I'm in a bit of a funk, and I go about my morning routine, and kind of go get my sunlight, go, you know, do everything that I do in the morning, and I'm still not 100% I will send her you know, a message on Slack or sent her voicemail, you know, whatever, then just let her know, like, I'm feeling a bit, you know, off today. And then she'll kind of pick up a little bit more if there's like, you know, a meeting that I have to lead or something, you know, she'll be there for a bit more support, and and vice versa as well, but she doesn't lead the meetings. So it's a little it's easier to hide, if you're not kind of front and center on those team calls. But yeah, it's a lot of responsibility. And I don't think I really, I really understood that. And I understood how important it was to look after myself and the consequent says I'm not doing that up until very recently.

Adam Liette
100% I used to, well not used to still do when I have to do my one to ones. I'll schedule them on a single day because I know at the end of that day I am wrecked. Like my emotional reservoir is gone. I've thrown it all out. Yeah. So what are some things that have worked for you to help fill that emotional reservoir back up to regain yourself in that moment?

Noor Barrage
Yeah, I think that's I do the same thing. By the way, my Wednesday is everyone knows, like, do not speak to her at any point in the day, because I'm back to back on calls from, like, eight in the morning till about 4pm. I'm like, back to back with breaks to stand up, take my dog downstairs. And that's it, like and eat food. And that's it. And I just, I do prefer to do it that way. Because it means my other days are more focused work. And I have a lot more flexibility. So I've chosen to do it that way. But it is, it is hard. And I have to make sure that I get a good night's sleep the day before in the morning, like no technology if, if that is possible. So I'll go out for a walk or go for a run. And then I do my calls. And then at the end of the day, I, I would if you were asking me this. Maybe like six months ago, it'd be like, Oh, I finished the calls. And then I'll just get into work. And it's like, okay, but you've been back to back for like nine hours, like, chill, you know. But now I finished my calls. And I'm like, That's me for the day. I've you know, been back to back for nine hours at my desk. And then I'll go meet a friend. So get some call contact with people that like, recharge me. Early night. I am an avid reader. I love reading I My degree is literature. So that's kind of a big thing for me. Just picking up a fiction book and getting into that and, and then just going to bed early and making sure that I'm eating throughout the day and eating like good food, because that is some thing. I'm still navigating. And that often takes a backseat when you're back to back. It's like, oh, I don't have time to do that. But then you get to the end of your calls. And you're like, I feel like I can't even stand because I have no energy. So this is not good. But yeah, that's kind of what works for me.

Adam Liette
What is it about Wednesdays because it's the same day of the week I do it to where it's

Noor Barrage
mid point where you know, the one to ones it's a good time to check in with everyone. So I think that's why it's it's the Wednesdays but yeah, the Wednesdays is the the intense day for me when I know Tuesday Eve I'm like Okay, it's time to get into good headspace and make sure that I'm I'm able to show up the next day

Adam Liette
under present and used a key phrase there when you're describing that balance, where you're you're having your focus time and you're having more of your team time. So do you have times where you'll outright tell the team? Hey, I'm going to be working on this kind of just or how do you navigate that team communication and trying to be open yet still have your focused time to work on projects?

Noor Barrage
Yeah, I on like back to back holders, I will tell the team like I'm back to back today. So don't expect replies on slack from me, because until the end of the day, and then I'll do kind of a sweep. But our communication, our kind of day to day communication has gotten so much better. And there's so much more efficient that I don't find that six months ago, I would have like, maybe four or five, six notifications every hour. And it was like someone asking something of me be like, Oh, have you do you know where this is? Or I need you to do this, or I need help with this? Or I don't know how to do this, can you get on a call and I'm like, Nope, I cannot get on call right now. Like I have a million other things to do. And now that's not the case at all. So it's very rare that I get direct messages on Slack daily, which is amazing. Because a couple years ago, I would finish work very, very, very late. And wake up very, very, very early and check slack first thing in the morning, and I would have about 40 or 50 notifications daily. And the time that it took just to go through that. I was like I'm spending hours just trying to go through all of this. And it was it was impossible, but I don't have that right now. So in terms of making sure the team is aware that I'm on available or on calls. If I'm on calls, I'll let them know if I'm going to be not reachable for a long period of time. And if I'm working on kind of like deep focused work, I'll put it in my calendar. I'll update my status on Slack So it's like deep focus work. So everyone kind of knows, okay, like, she's not going to reply for the next two hours because she's focused on a project or she's doing something like this, like on a podcast. So we, you know, we won't get a reply from her.

Adam Liette
I think that's so interesting what you said there. In that, I feel like we are, at some point, we use it almost as a badge of honor the number of slack notifications, we get like, I have more slack notifications in you Yay, I did I win. No, we didn't win. Because I know what that does. And obviously, anyone listening is like, oh, my gosh, we're feeling that pain. And yet, I think for as I'm hearing you, it's it's been a proactive information process. And having like deliberate information, like structures in you're in the business that is enabled you to move away from that, and away from being in a reactionary mode. And now you're proactive with how you're sending information to the team. Like what kind of structures have really helped enable that. And, and is that, like, how can someone start to implement those into their business?

Noor Barrage
Yeah. No, I completely agree with everything you said, I think I used to exist in almost 100%, a reactive state, like I wasn't, I wasn't able to be proactive in anything that I did, which is, if you are an operator, you will know how incredibly frustrating that is. Because you want everything you want to do is proactive. You want to be setting things up for the future. You want to be setting up processes so that people can win so that projects can be completed on time. But you aren't able to do that. We have a bunch of stuff that we've we've implemented and you know, all hands down to Alec scharffen is program who's they've changed everything. For us. It's been super remarkable to see like the change in five months that we've made. But mainly, I would say, you know, if I'm to summarize it without getting into the entire system, and in a couple of sentences, we have more frequent touch points than we did before, in terms of like camera to camera, because we're completely remote, so camera to camera time. But those interactions are focused and targeted. So we know, okay, we have our daily huddle, every single day, Monday through to Friday, we speak to the team every day, they speak to us if there is an issue, if someone needs help with something, it's flagged in that interaction with the team. And then we plan which we didn't used to do before, or we did, but it was just me and Lauren. And now everyone that kind of owns a project is brought in on the planning and allowing, you know, opening it up. So it's not just me and Lauren being like we're doing this, this is the goal, you get a lot more buy in from your team, because they're involved in like, oh, okay, we think we need to do this, this this this quarter, because that's gonna allow us to get closer to this objective that we've set. And it's like, okay, yeah, let's, let's do that. That sounds great. Let's go with that. And they're like, five, verses before, it was like, we need you to do this. And we need you to do it by next week. And it's like, but that's not feasible. It's like, but we need you to do it. And it's like, that's, like, you're not going to get very great results, if you're not bringing in your team, at least, like more kind of strategic thinkers on your team into those planning sessions. And then it's just every Monday. So we have a meeting and a couple of hours. We meet with the entire team, and everyone kind of goes through what they're going to focus on this coming week. And that's been really helpful. Because before myself and Lauren had all these kind of questions as to what's this person doing? Or like, you know, is this being worked on as it's being handled. And now at the beginning of the week, we get super clear on okay, like, this is what our marketing team is doing. This is what our sales people are doing. This is kind of what the focus is in this area. And we have that clarity and transparency. And we it's not just us that has that the entire team has that so that in and of itself has limited all those, you know, do you have this or like what are we doing here or I need help with this? Because we have those frequent touch points daily and then weekly. And then I have one, two ones with everyone, as I said on Wednesday, so that's kind of a nice middle point because we get to the middle of the week and it's like is there anything you need help with is anything that You are struggling with how can I support you more so that come the end of the week, we all feel good. And we're all like, Okay, we've we've won this week, like, we feel really good happy with the work that we are producing, happy with, you know, the projects or the goals that we've checked off. I think most It goes without saying like most people in an entrepreneurial business, particularly kind of small startup, everyone is like, super, super driven, everyone is like, really proud, like, we all are really proud of the work we produce. And it's been amazing to be able to put the team in a state where they are winning, and they feel like they can win versus what we had before, which was like this kind of endless hamster wheel of like we're trying, but we're never gonna get there. So that's been really amazing to see.

Adam Liette
I love that, like I just recorded an episode for the show called Creating a culture of winning, where it's like finding those winning points and bringing them much closer to where you can win every day or win every hour. And it sounds like that's something you've done as well. But more importantly, with the team. They're bringing projects to you, it sounds like they have ownership over the process and their role in the process. And how has that been to let go of that control? Have you? How have you navigated that?

Noor Barrage
Um, it's hard, is my simple. On third, I said before, I do have clinical OCD. I'm a bit of a control freak, I think the majority of operators that I've met as well are like that. But I think when you have the right system, and you have the correct infrastructure in a business, and you have transparency as part of that infrastructure, it makes things a lot easier, because the reality is like, where we want to go, we can't go alone. And like the majority of entrepreneurs are like that we have this massive vision, we have all these incredible things that we want to do, but we can't do it alone, we have to get help, we have to have people on board the team, whether that's a very small team of three, four people, or you know, much a much greater team, much bigger team, we need help. So having the right people on board, who, you know, are all incorrect, like I would rather they do it than me because they're phenomenal and far more experienced in their respective areas than I am. And it's just having that infrastructure in place where I can go has been done. And then I can just go to the place where it's stored and go, okay, like we're at 60% completion. So like we're getting there, we're moving. And like, this is an issue that they've identified, but they've gotten on a call to like, go through it. So like they're working through it. So having that visibility and transparency over everything has made it a lot easier for me to go, Okay, I don't need to step in and fix it, I don't need to step in and help because they've got it and if they need my help, they will ask, and they have all the you know, they have very frequent touch points, like they see me every day, and they can ask for help on huddles, and they can ask for help on our one to ones and they can ask for help in their weekly report, which they fill out every at the end of the week. So if if I'm needed, it will be known, it will, you know, they'll make it known. So I don't have to, you know, go in and go, Oh, I think this is gonna fail. And they're all fantastic in their respective areas. So you know, they're more than capable of taking ownership over these projects. And me taking a backseat and taking ownership over mine so I can get mine done. It's been really nice.

Adam Liette
I think you said a key word there. It's, they're better at it than I am. And like letting go of that need to be the best at everything. It's something that doesn't come natural to all of us. But like when you can just say that out loud the first time and start to embody it. It's rather freeing, because it you you are able to remove a lot of that pressure on yourself to get it done.

Noor Barrage
Yeah, 100%. And that is difficult. I like the majority of entrepreneurs that start businesses start alone, and they start doing everything. So you do sales, you do marketing, you do the fulfillment, you do the tech. You do everything's like it doesn't help to leave behind that notion of like, oh, there are other people that can do it and can do it better. Because you've reaffirmed in your head. I've gotten this far on my own or like with Lauren. So like, you know, like I can I can I can do it. But you know that the stuff that they produce is brilliant. It's See, and sometimes, you know, I get invited to a marketing interaction where they're discussing a specific thing. And I'm like, I don't really know what you guys are saying, but it sounds really great. Yes. And I think, yeah, just, you know, being humble, and no one can do everything. And there are going to be people that are far better at you, in whatever areas, and that's a massive asset for your business. It's not a liability. It's not something to be, you know, insecure about or anything like, you know, you, you are building a great team, and you have incredible people who are more skilled in specific areas than you are. And because of them, we will be able to go far further. So it's a it's a really good thing.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. And you mentioned, something that I just want to touch on briefly, or I think often we'll think of like the beginning of a project and the end, like, okay, here, it's assigned here, it's done. But it sounds like there's, there's an intermediary in there in there that you have, are you able to see the progress, see that it's 60%? Done? Like how, like, what types of systems are using to build that transparency during the process?

Noor Barrage
Yeah, so um, in terms of, like, going to get there, talk about specifics, we use click up for everything kind of project task related. So all of our projects, tasks, like everything is inside of clickup. And we have a process whereby our team dot documents as they go. So it's not just the let's say, the end goal of the project is 50, new members by the end of the quarter. And then all of the things that you do to get to that end point, maybe a new funnel needs to be built, maybe a new marketing campaign needs to be launched, may be you need to onboard a new person, like all of these kind of things that feed into that end goal, like how are we going to get to the end goal, we break it up, and then it's reporting daily. So like, every time I work on something, my update kind of goes in into that project. So if I, let's say one of my kind of goals is to hire a Customer Support Assistant. And today, I had like five interviews, I will report on that. So like five interviews, I did five interviews today, two of them were really great pushed to next round. Three of them, were not really great, like culture fit wasn't there. And then like those three didn't make it. And then everyone who is involved in that project, or everyone who wants to know where everyone who has questions as to like, when is this customer support person coming in, because like, we really need them, they can just have a look and be like, okay, like that project is moving. Like, we're moving on that on that goal. And that's been really nice. And that has also limited a lot of the back and forth. Because a lot of the times it's a question about where are we at, like what's going on when it comes to this thing. And instead of kind of going back and forth and like having to ask, you can just go in and find you know, where's that project and be like, okay, like all of this stuff has been done. That's fantastic. So like, we're moving on that. And that's really helped kind of streamline our communication. And also make it so that everything is documented in one space. So it's really easy to find anyone on our team has access to it. So you know, there's complete and total transparency across the hierarchy as well. So anything that Lauren and I are doing, everything is is in one space.

Adam Liette
I love that it's like a diary for your work. And there's two benefits to that. Not only is it radical transparency, which I'm a huge fan of, but from the tactical sense of the word for both you and your team that's doing tasks. It's like I did this, I documented it. Now I'm done. Versus sometimes we'll take those tasks with us. And will its way of like downloading your work and being like, okay, it's gone. Now I'm gonna go work on something else. It's simple act of just writing something down I think is radical is really radical. But I love it. And I'm gonna, like I'm looking at my to do list today going, I should probably start doing this, like now, because it helps me stay organized to write.

Noor Barrage
And I think it's also really helpful because one of the things that is a big part of kind of what I do is if something breaks, its first point of, okay, this person needs to fix it is like the person responsible. But oftentimes I'll be brought in to go how can we make this process better? Or like what? You know, we're not 100% sure what happened here? And the nice thing about having, essentially a log of everything you did is you're able to pinpoint what you didn't do, or what you did, but didn't do to the right standard. So it's like, Oh, we did this. And it's like, okay, but did we then test that on, like, the web browser and our phone to see if like the funnel look, the way that you know, it's meant to look via the tracklist? And it's like, oh, no, we didn't do that. It's like, okay, let's put that in the process. And then next time, we won't have this issue. So it becomes really easy to kind of pinpoint, okay, like, there is an issue here because we didn't do X Y Zed, or like, maybe we did X, Y, Zed. But can you elaborate a little bit on what that Zed component was? And it's like, oh, well, we only did this and it's like, oh, okay, well, that's the issue, we should have done this, and this, and then had it checked by someone else. So it just makes it easier as well, in terms of when things break, which they will, and like, I have only recently been okay with, with a saying that like things, you know, the point is not to make it perfect. The point is to have the right infrastructure, so when things break, because they will, because things break as we grow, and that's why we're here. You can fix them, and you can fix them, like quickly, efficiently, and then you can move forward. And that doesn't inhibit growth.

Adam Liette
I love that. It's like, process refinement in process. You're not like waiting, it's not like on a calendar like this time in the quarter, we're gonna refine our processes. No, like, you're, it's, this is broken, let's fix it. And I share with you that same mentality of getting over the fact that's not things are gonna break and being okay with that. That's a really tremendous moment in the growth in the growth phase, where it's like, oh, but that's okay. And I got to the point, I got excited about breaking things, because then then I could fix it. And I'm kind of a builder anyway. Fantastic. I do want to be respectful of your time, we're coming up on the hour. So before we jump, a you've, you've recommended the Chimp Paradox. I'm gonna buy that today. Because I'm a crazy reader to any other books that you recommend for someone either coming into this position or already in this position to help them continue to grow.

Noor Barrage
Um, that's such a good question. I think books are, I mean, again, I have a degree in literature. So I'm almost innately biased as to how incredible books are. I think you also need to be careful because I've been in this space for long enough of whereby it's almost, there's almost this glorification of like, Oh, I've read 200 books, and it's like, okay, but what are we doing with that information? Because I'm relatively good at processing stuff that I read. But that's like, a completely different thing that we're talking about. So I have a few that I go back to and I like, if you make copies are disgusting, because they're like, you know, all then the margins are, there's like scribbling in the margins, and highlights and posters and all of that. But the Chimp Paradox, I think by just looking at my shelf, Steve Peters, Professor, Steve Peters is phenomenal. And it's more about your personal development, and understanding people and why people react in certain ways, which I think really helps you as an operator, then it is about business. And then there is another one that I recommend to everyone. And again, less business is its dare to lead by Brene Brown. And Brene Brown is just phenom. Have you read that one?

Adam Liette
Yeah,

Noor Barrage
she's phenomenal. I think that's such an important book because I think I had this really skewed idea of what it meant to be a leader and I had always had leadership roles throughout my life like I you know, was on sports teams like growing up and I was captain of some and I always had leadership positions growing up throughout my life. And I had I feel this really weird view of what it meant to be a leader like if you're a leader, you have to be tough, you cannot you cannot be vulnerable. You shouldn't show that you go through the same stuff that like everyone goes through because we're all human and life is challenging and but that's such a that has been such an incredible book me in in changing how I view leadership and and reassessing what it means to be a leader and how I show up for my team. And I think the effect that that has had is that I'm a lot more empathetic with people while still being very fun. Lauren once said was it was it Lauren, I don't know, it might have been Alec scharffen, who said, the operator is the most feared but the most loved person in the business. And that really hit home for me because I've had when I'm like, unhappy, because you know, we missed a target that we shouldn't have missed, because everything was in place for us to get there. Like, people are like, Oh, we don't want to, like, let's not go on the cool like, everyone's like, you know, but at the same time, Whenever someone's having a tough time, or they're going through something, and they want to voice that, because they know that we're human, and it's very difficult to compartmentalize, if a loved one is sick, or you're going through a really bad mental health day, they can show up and be vulnerable with me and be like, Hey, this is what's going on. And I just want you to be aware, because I may need a bit more support I, you know, I'm going through this, this this. So that's been a really, really incredible one. And then just having a look at, there are so many great ones. Zero to One, is a really, really great book as well, that one's more like your kind of textbook business. That one is really, really great. I recommend that to a lot of people, I'm going through it now, for the second or the third time. And again, like just tearing up the book and making notes and stuff, because it's such a great book. And again, I think it challenges a lot of notions that we have about, you know, what sort of business we should have, and how we should kind of challenge these notions that are thrown around constantly about what it means to be an entrepreneur or you know, how, how to push growth in our business. So I think that one is a really great one. And it's also quite easy to read, which I appreciate because I feel like a lot of the books that people recommend are a lot of the books that I've kind of talked about in the space. It's a load of fluff, and you're kind of like read it, and you're like, I didn't really, I didn't really get what the point is like, I don't really understand how that's going to apply to me or my business and stuff. And this one is a really, really great chapter by chapter you're like, Okay, that's the key takeaway. Like I understand that, and like, this is an action item that I can have based off of this. So that one's a really great one as well.

Adam Liette
Well, the point was to get the page count, well, isn't it for some of these books? I mean, it has to be this thick to be taken seriously. So fantastic. And I love what you said about, like the glorification of the number of books we read, I fell into that paradox for a while. And now it's like, Why does have, I have ones that I've read like six times, and I keep going back to them. Because I keep finding the next layer or reminding myself that the lessons that I might have learned, but I didn't implement so I didn't really learn them.

Noor Barrage
Yeah, and I think that's so that that to me, is the mark of a really good book, it's you can revert back to it when you're in different seasons of business or of life and extract a whole new element or layer from that book. The Chimp Paradox is definitely one of those for me. It's one that I go back to constantly and I'm like, Ah, is that my chimp who's acting out? Or is that, like my computer. And once you read it, you'll understand that terminology and it makes it makes you see things in people in a whole different light. It's just I'm excited. I'm gonna check in with you and see how you found it because I'm very curious to hear your thoughts, but it's such an incredible book.

Adam Liette
Now I have homework, okay, this is

Noor Barrage
I think you've already enjoy it.

Adam Liette
Love it. This has been so phenomenal. I knew it was gonna going to be really just wonderful to experience this reflection. I think this journey can be lonely, but so rewarding. And I'm just so honored to get to meet you and hear what you're doing and like we've there's so many things that we I think we both done but to like get to to hear it from a different perspective has been really illuminating. And I for anyone listening out there, this operator stuff it's it's not plug and play. It's not just find the person that can click Complete on the project. There's a lot more to it than that. And if you can find someone like Nora, they're tremendous asset to your business. And well sometimes we have to create them within our business and so that's why we have amazing a Our resources outside to help us do that. So thank you so much for this opportunity. It's been wonderful. And I look forward to staying in touch. Where can the listeners connect with you?

Noor Barrage
Um, I am on LinkedIn. So just know barrage on LinkedIn. And I'm on Twitter as well. And Instagram. So my handle is Nora V barrage. So n o r VBAWHE. on both Instagram and Twitter, I will caveat by saying that I'm not super active on social media. I'd say LinkedIn is kind of the place where again, like I'm very comfortable with words less comfortable with videos, and you know, all the stuff that is is very kind of dominant in that realm of the online business space. But yeah, LinkedIn is kind of where I'm most active, I would say,

Adam Liette
I think that's a story you're telling yourself, Nora, because you are phenomenal on video and auditorily like you've deliver information in a really succinct way. So maybe challenge yourself on that one.

Noor Barrage
take that on board. Thank you so much.

Adam Liette
Thank you so much. No, have a wonderful rest of your day.

Noor Barrage
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Adam Liette
Hey, operators. I believe that within each and every one of us lies a warrior in waiting, this warrior is able to conquer any obstacle that comes their way to discover how to awaken your warrior spirit and conquer what's holding you back. Go to Adam liette.com and join awaken the Warrior Within

Outline



Noor Barrage is the Operator for The Impact School, helping people sell service online using social media. $400k/yr.


“We’re going to get you your life back”



4 years in from being a Founding partner, how did you become the Operator for the business? Was this a natural place for you to fall into?



What does this position mean to you? Your place in the organization?



What is an Operator?


Story about Alex telling me that I was the emotional leader of the team. Operators are so often the emotional leaders of the team. What does that mean to you and how do you become an emotional leader?


What about your own emotional reservoir? How do you fill it back up?



Am I the only person that gets excited when I find broken things or do you as well?



What’s the best strategy you’ve found to get your CEO to open up to you? Extract information that you know is bothering them? Or to make sure that you are open to each other?



What about dealing with confrontation or troubles with team members or your outsourced functions? What’s your strategy?



How do you balance working for the good of the organization and the people within it vs. achieving business goals?



What’s been the big difference between first breaking 100k/month to 400k/month?


How important is transparency to you? From above and below



Why is it so important for people in our position to have a coach/guide through this process?



What’s one piece of advice you would give to anyone to be a better leader for their team? … and what about their CEO?



Ray dalio personality test



Chimp Paradox