Monday, October 09, 2023
The sales process can feel very icky to many entrepreneurs. It’s not a natural thing for many of us to engage in high-pressure sales situations.
After a career as a highly successful sales leader, Darleen has found that so much of sales is inauthentic and forced. She’s passionate about empathetic and relational sales and helps to empower entrepreneurs with the confidence to sell as an extension of who they are.
Discover:
1. How to insert your offer into your prospects decision making timeline
2. Why the follow up is critical to keeping the connection with your prospects
3. How to be more empathetic in your sales
4. Why giving them more confidence in their decision making can enable greater sales volume
5. How to incorporate a CRM to keep things organized
As a fellow “ugh I hate sales calls” person, this was a breath of fresh air that makes me feel much better about my own sales process.
If you’ve ever felt unsure about your own sales, this is a great episode for you.
Connect with Darleen https://dp-consults.com/
Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com
Activate The Warrior Within https://www.adamliette.com/awaken-the-warrior
20 Business Owners Lives Will Change In 2024...
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Transcript
Adam Liette
What's up smooth operators Welcome to this week's episode. So happy to have you here. I'm really excited about this one. I know I say that every time it's because I really am like I genuinely find the most or they find me I should say, like, the most amazing guests come on my show. And this one I'm geeking out about because it has to do with a subject that all of us have to do in our businesses, whether we know it or not, whether we want to admit it or not. It's sales. Now, I know sales is like that big Oh, God, I gotta do that, again. Because sales for many of us is one of the hardest things we have to do. And I know that because, look, we are like every client I work with, it's nine times out of 10, you are passionate, you are creators. You are very big hearted people. And that's what I love about you, I love that you are on a mission to do something amazing in this world to make a difference in people's lives. And that means you have a certain personality type, you have a certain way of approaching the world, which doesn't always make you the most natural salesperson. And you can go out and get sales training all day and night, I can give you 20 names of salespeople that will teach you how to sell. The problem is that not all of their sales methods will align with your true values and your true way of approaching the world. And therefore you're not going to implement it. I know because I've paid for those sales courses. It's not going to feel right and therefore you're not going to be able to grow your business. So when I find people that are in our line, they're there, they look at the world, the way we do it, I can feel just the vibration. zooms weird like you do zoom enough, you can feel a vibration, like between it. So when I when I meet someone that I connect with on that level, immediately I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is going to be a great conversation talking about how to sell and how to be your best in the sales conversation. With that I'm bringing on Darlene per day Darlene runs this site DEP consults.com. She's passionate about empathetic and relational sales. She spent over 25 years in leadership roles, much of that in sales and is found that so many so much in sales is inauthentic and forced told you'd like this. She loves working with entrepreneurs and has a genuine desire and and pool to help us grow our businesses through greater sales through more clients through more revenue. And that's happy, happy, happy for everyone. So Darlene, thank you so much for joining me. How are you today?
Darleen Priday
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me, Adam.
Adam Liette
It's gonna be fun. This is gonna be good, even though I'm jealous of the Florida weather you're in? Well, maybe not. It's warm as I'm in Ohio, as y'all know. And we're like, is it September? I don't know. It's still warm here. But we'll get there. So how did you come to this line of work? I know you've you've done a number of things. I'd love to hear what what created Darlene?
Darleen Priday
Yeah, so I, I have had just the pleasure of being able to work with so many entrepreneurs through my career. Regardless of the positions that I had, I always connected with small businesses, I really have a heart for small businesses, family businesses solopreneurs. So in, in doing that, what I saw was a commonality of people that started a business, they were amazing at what they did, they grew the business. And then they came to the point where they were like, I don't want to sell so now I have to hire a salesperson. So in that I kept seeing like the same thread of they felt like it was icky, it was inauthentic. And quite frankly, like I used to joke and say I was the only salesperson that hated sales, like air quotes, right? Typical sales. So you know, and I've been I've been in the business long enough where I made all the mistakes and tried to be other people and tried to listen to the best of the best and what you can glean from anyone. Certainly if it's not authentic to you, then it's not gonna work.
Adam Liette
100% and I think you hit on the biggest thing that hits on so many of us it's that perception that sales is icky or it's some thing to not be desired. I mean, I get the same thing with marketing. And some of people I talked to were like sending an email sequence like, oh my gosh, that's marketing. Yeah, it is. What is it about sales, particularly that you've found that causes that? That kind of like barrier for many entrepreneurs,
Darleen Priday
I think a lot of them take pride in what they do. But they feel like, they feel like they're pushing their services, or they're pushing their product on to other people. And I will say that in my career, it is definitely a mind shift. And there's something beautiful that comes with age, when you know, when you're young, I was impressionable. And I tried to do things the right way. And then it just didn't, didn't fit. And I always like to think outside of the box, and I'm a little bit a little bit stubborn, a little bit of a rebel. So if somebody tells me you have to do it a certain way, my mind is like, Hmm, let me try to find a different way to do it. So in that I started developing my own way of selling, which was not really selling, it was building relationships. That's it. My goal was to help people and to build relationships. And if the sales came, the sales came.
Adam Liette
Gotcha. So it's, like, starting that initial conversation growing from there, or when you're advising someone to do this? Are they working off of any kind of plan or structure? Or is it just kind of more like a general feeling that they're trying to get through each interaction?
Darleen Priday
So I think like, you have to have a structure in life, because if not, you're wasting people's time, you're wasting your time. And when I say the end goal is not a sale, I want to be very clear that I've had an incredible career in sales, doing what I'm doing without having that, you know, as the first and foremost of making the sale. So I put I help people structure, what is authentic to them, what is their value that they're bringing, sharing it, the worst thing in the world is for people to say, now, now, people are kind of coming around to like building relationships. But I think we've all had people come into LinkedIn and be like, Oh, I admire what you do, let's have virtual coffee, and all they're doing is pitch and ditch, right? They're just getting on the call to say what they can do. And they're not really listening. But be you know, being open. If it's a sales call, it's a sales call, that's fine. But it's more of a discovery call where it takes the pressure off the person, you're actively listening to what that person needs, versus just vomiting, everything that you do, to give them the information of what you do. So that really sets the stage for somebody to build a trust, like your goal is to have that trust build that you're actually hearing the person on the other side, you do have their best, getting the best for them in mind. And my thing is that if I am not the right solution, there is nothing worse than bringing in a client when you're not the right solution. It's not good for them. It's not good for you, it's bad business period. And it's also makes it miserable. Everybody wants to be successful. So if you know you can help somebody, I'm really passionate about what I can help with. But if I'm not the right solution, I have incredible people in my network that I can hand them off to build that trust, build that relationship and maybe down the road on the right solution.
Adam Liette
Hmm. I love it too, because it's it's definitely a lighter approach. It's going to feel more authentic to that person having that conversation. And I think it allows that person to take whatever bad characteristics they associated with sales almost, like identify it, name it. It's almost like an anti persona type of exercise and be able to put it on the shelf. Yeah, like so they are being more conscious about what they don't like about sales, what they don't like about the way they've been pitched by, like I said, have a virtual coffee. We all know what that is. Right? And unfortunately, I think discovery call is very close to being there too. So I wonder what our next spin on that it's going to be to getting people on the call just because discovery call has been used and abused by a lot of people. But you get to identify and discard it. If I'm Hearing it correctly.
Darleen Priday
Yes. And I do think discovery calls can be overused. But I do like that term, because you're really discovering what the person needs, and you're sharing how you can help them. So if it's done, right, all of these things are not bad. If they're done right, and they're done authentically, that's why I say empathetic sales. I, we have a responsibility, your services, my services, we have a responsibility. We're like, these are entrepreneurs that are building the businesses, they're feeding families, they are, you know, they put their blood, sweat and tears into a business. You want to make sure that if you were on the other end of that call, how would somebody be treating you? Would somebody really be trying to help you or just get their service across? So I put my, I put myself in the other person's shoes, and I try to look at it from a bigger picture to make sure it's right. In fact, when some sometimes you get people that are just excited, they're like, yes, yes, yes. Before you even you don't kind of really see if that's the right fit. I tell them, take some time, think about it. Let me send you some information, review it, talk it over with your spouse, there is no need to rush somebody when you know you're the right solution. There is a way way
Adam Liette
there was a guru that told me that you can't allow this to happen. Like they have to make the decision on the call darling. I mean, you're breaking all the rules here. Okay, this is not numb. There are rules, okay?
Darleen Priday
Yeah, and I'm sure Listen, there are sales gurus out there that are probably cringing when they hear me and that's fine. You know, do whatever works for you. But again, when you're really operating authentically, there is no there is no pressure, there is no pressure, nothing we're doing is earth shattering that you have to decide on this call and sign. I had a client, for example, her her partner was a coach, a business coach, and she did websites and she was like, yes, but he's telling me I have to get that deposit before I hang up. And I'm like, How do you like to be sold like that? Like, to me again, it's that rebel in me, if somebody tells me I have to, or it's the only way I do the opposite. So I think it'll backfire when you're putting that pressure on there. To make people make that decision, if they're not ready, it is a much better relationship working in otherwise, when you have that person that really thinks about it. And it's like, you know, sometimes people need another call. Sometimes people need more coaxing to, to get out of their own way. But you know, only if it's the right service.
Adam Liette
And I think you hit it on it right there. If I can explore that for a second where it's, if it's, Hey, I really need to think about it. It's not like, okay, great. Let me know by instead it's opening the door through maybe some questions that you've thought of ahead of time, had them ready, because you want to have your questions staged, obviously, just you can word them correctly, to where you're exploring with them. You're letting them come to that decision on their own? Yeah, it might be. It might be tomorrow, it might be after they talk to their spouse. But am I am I getting a kind of right where when that barrier comes up, you're one of them lead them this way to where they can continue to explore.
Darleen Priday
You don't just get off the call. And that's the end of it and just sit by passively and wait for somebody to come back to you when they decided right? You want to keep in touch with them. See what their decision making timeline is. Everybody has different timelines. What is your decision making process? What is your decision making timeline? If somebody is like I'm exploring this for next year? Okay. Well, you know, what is going to? What is that tipping scale that's going to make you what's at the beginning of the year? Is it budget, is it you're adding on another service line? What does that look like really understanding where they're coming from? And then your follow up, which is so critical is that every time you touch that person, you're still giving them value, whether they use you or not, to remind them. I'm here. I'm here to help. Remember, you know, this is what I do. This is a great article, maybe for you to read or this is something that I came across or this is how I love using case studies and testimony. manuals This is how I help someone because they see themselves in someone else. And it gives them more confidence to make that right decision.
Adam Liette
Because it's thinking you could even make like an anti hero out of the, the other sales guys. Like in that moment you're like, Hey, I know you probably heard this before you got to decide like right now, let me tell you that no one actually believes that they're just trying to get you to force force it, I'm not gonna do that. So you can like make yourself the good guy in that moment. Because you are, obviously so you're you're being authentic there. But I think there's a nice little pivot there where you can call out everyone else at the same time.
Darleen Priday
Yeah, and I think I think we've all been, especially now we're sold every time we open up a computer screen, a phone, anything ever, you know, it's information is bombarding us. And it's the latest and the greatest. So some people have fear that they're going to make the wrong decision. Fear is typically you could talk about obstacles, right? Fear is typically the number one obstacle where somebody does not buy a service, because they fear like they're making the wrong decision. They fear like, it's not going to be good for them. So addressing those fears, and saying, I completely empathize with where you're coming from, you have a limited budget, you have to make the right decisions. But here's why. Here's the value that I bring to what you are doing. And it's going to be a natural extension of you that you're you're paying me for these services, but you are going to carry these tools with you for the rest of your life.
Adam Liette
Right. Absolutely. And to get on those phone calls. This is this is like my big bugaboo. It's it when I first started, it was like, Well, how do I fill my funnel? Like everyone's talking about filling your funnel? So how do you advise growing that sales pipeline, because sales like anything else you need at bats, you need practice you need you need to work at it to get better at it, even with this approach, like you just need to do it more and more to get better. So how do we get more at bats? How do we give ourselves more chances with a full pipeline?
Darleen Priday
Yeah, so a lot of times, again, I can't stress following up following up enough. A lot of my clients that I started with, they would come to me and say, Well, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I got like three noes in a row or I got, you know, everybody said no, and I'm like, you know, as a salesperson for many years? Well, no, like, if you really think you can help that person No, is not a no, no, could be a not now, no could be you know, there's no could be No, you're not right for the you know, your service, or you're not the right person for them. They're not your right client. But that's really a smaller percentage. The bigger percentage is people that can't afford you right now, or are not ready for you or need time to explore, or they want to get there. But they have other people that they can recommend and bring more people in there. Because if you sell somebody on your service, even if they are not using you, they are your free advertising. They're your evangelists there. They're out there saying, You know what? I just talked to somebody and Darlene has this great program. You're struggling with sales. I was too I didn't use her yet, but I think you should talk to her. I have so many people that send me people that way.
Adam Liette
So it's like a digital leave behind, even if, like you want to lead them with something to be able to pass along in that instance.
Darleen Priday
Yes, absolutely. And because they see your genuine, they see you're going to bring value. And then again, building your pipeline with follow ups. You know, who are you connecting with? I keep connecting with people until they say no, I don't want to hear from you again. You know, not in an obnoxious way not You're not going to send them you know, every every week something but no, you know, and that's something that I provide for my clients too is cadences of how to follow up timing. What does that look like what's appropriate that you're giving value but not being obnoxious? And what are the cues that you listen for to see where to put them what bucket are you going to put them in?
Adam Liette
Yes, oh my gosh, because cadences those timelines, take the guesswork out of it right now. We're no longer overthinking it from the sales See, instead, we're focusing on the conversation rather than the mechanics of it.
Darleen Priday
Exactly, exactly those timelines. And that's why I say processes are so important. Because when the more people that you talk to, you want to make sure nobody's slipping through the cracks. And if you don't, for me, if I don't have those systems in place, as much as you know, I am invested in that person, if I talk to 10 more people, I have to make sure I know when to follow up. And I make little notes like little cheat sheets, like Oh, Adams, you know, dealing with this kids right now. And they're going on a family vacation and check back with him q4, you know, this way I know. And I can make that connection. Hey, how is your family trip? Or, you know, what does that look like? Now? I know you were working on your budget for the new year? What are you thinking? You know, and just making yourself available to questions, because there's all different buying styles to some people are very decisive. Other people need a little bit of nurturing to make sure that it's the right decision for them.
Adam Liette
I love it so much a lot of communication, a lot of moving pieces in infrastructure like this. Do you like if someone's maybe not just starting out? But like getting into that? They're starting to get into a flow? Or how are they traveling recommend tracking this information, these these encounters? Or are we talking like spreadsheets? Do you recommend going straight for a CRM? Or, like what kind of things do you recommend?
Darleen Priday
I think that there's there's a lot of CRMs that are user friendly, not expensive. Now, I mean, there's so many different things that I would say like back in the day, like, spreadsheet, but I am not a spreadsheet girl, like it just unless I get something that pops up and gives me a task, it will never get done. And I have a feeling like you know, when when you're busy, there's a lot of a lot of different things. So there's, there's inexpensive, CRMs, whatever works for you. I do have some clients that use spreadsheets, and it's incredible. They have a color coded when to contact, that would never work for me personally. But um, but whatever, whatever works for you is, as long as there's some kind of safeguard in place, because I cannot rely on my memory, I can't rely on a sticking No, or anything like that is to have those processes in place, and then be able to customize it and to see you know, and sometimes I put myself, make a note and then somebody responds, and then you have to change that cadence going forward, you can't live and die by every six weeks or however you had it sent, be sensitive to what that person is saying and where they are in the buying process.
Adam Liette
So cool. And I think there's a, there's a nice opportunity for context shifting here where, like, if someone comes to you, and they've been using spreadsheets, like hey, well maybe, like try something different. And just like the act of being in a different system triggers a different part of their brain, or whatever it is, I think, like, if you're gonna try a different approach, just do it all different, right? Just throw it all out and start a new, right.
Darleen Priday
Yes, and no, only because it's a lot of new and you don't want to just put somebody in shock, right. And I'm always have like the path of least resistance, like don't recreate the wheel, if it's working for you. Stay with it, until you start seeing the pain point. Or I can see certain systems that somebody has in place and say, You know what, there's nothing wrong with it now, but you are going to if you're doing it right, you're going to quickly outgrow it. So here are some options that you should look at, you know, so this way, it's in their own timing, because really changing everything up can really throw somebody for a loop, especially a solopreneur. They're overwhelmed to begin with.
Adam Liette
I think I think this is like the part of the conversation where my military background and like some of the just throw me to the wolves and I'll I'll be all right, like I have to be shocked into submission, if you will. But this is like part of the bigger conversation knowing yourself knowing how you react to stimuli, knowing how you work in that environment. So you can best cater your structures to work for you rather than against you, right?
Darleen Priday
i Yes, and I agree with you. I am like rip that band aid off. I'd rather just do everything throw me in the deep end and that's it, but not everybody operates that way. And you don't want Want to damage their their growth out of shock? Or you don't want them to just shut down? I, you know, there's a lot of people that have that fight flight or freeze, and then they just freeze and then they can't do anything. So you have to see what's the end game? And if it takes a little bit longer to get there, so what? It's the journey?
Adam Liette
Yeah. And that freeze, that gets us into the fear of sales. If we're listening, and like just the thought and making that next call gives us that feeling like how do you help get rid of that fear of the sales process with your clients? Yeah. So
Darleen Priday
you know, the one thing is what's behind that fear? What is making you afraid to make that call? Most of the people that I've worked with have had sales calls that they don't label as sales calls because they grew their business, but then they're talking to strangers. So then they're like, well, well, I don't know how they're gonna react, or it's a mind shift. Like everything else, right? We know so much about the mind. Now, it's really incredible. That if you take it and look at it from the perspective of, I know what value I bring, I'm passionate about what I do. This could be for anybody, right? I'm passionate about what I do. I know I can move the needle for somebody I know I can help them. All I'm going to do is share what I do. And let the chips fall where they may. It's truly going to be a discovery call. It's not going to be what I tell my clients is the end game is making the relationship and building some form of trust versus making a sale. Again, it sounds counterintuitive, and I'm sure there are salespeople out there cringing, but I've always been a top producer, and I didn't have to be salesy.
Adam Liette
And there's so much it's like, well, that surely, I'm just thinking, like all the different possible ways that people are like calling BS on it. And I'm like, well, but the proofs in the pudding. Right? And yeah, and the fact of the matter is, if you if you were thrown into if we took you today and threw you into one of those high pressure, follow this script environments, you probably wouldn't be successful. Correct?
Darleen Priday
Oh, yeah, I don't think I'd last very long. I mean, you know, I, I think also we have such an educated buyer, more than ever, you know, I'm in the business a long time in many different arenas. And, you know, back in the day, what you're telling them is what they know, now they can look it up, they can, you know, they can call BS on you. And they have comparisons, and they're also getting messages from all different angles, whose voice is going to stand out. Somebody who is screaming, I'm the best, I'm the only way if you don't use me, you're going to fail. or somebody's like, Hey, you, you know what I really appreciate what you've done. I was on your website, you are doing things, you know, amazing, and you're making inroads. But my services can help you get to that next level. And here's how, you know, they're like, who would you listen to?
Adam Liette
Yeah, it's a person who's showing the genuine appreciation upfront. And I think for so many of us, when you and I make a sale, it's not like we're just dumping someone to do a course and we never have to talk to them again. They're going to see us like, what kind of relationship are you setting from the outset? And yeah, you might make that first one, are you going to make another one? Because you've already kind of set this weird tone, where I think it'd be difficult for someone to open up to you in a coaching environment if their first encounter with you was in that high pressure sales environment. Right. So it's, it doesn't even work long term.
Darleen Priday
I tell my clients, you are your brand, whatever services you're selling, it doesn't make a difference. You are your brand. If somebody does not trust you, if you're nothing that you do will ever be able to really help that person if the trust is not there. And back to I think we were talking before we started recording about hiring salespeople when you weren't your brand and if you were hiring somebody that's out They're using tactics that are not in alignment with your core values, then you are your product that is just going to be it's going to sabotage your business.
Adam Liette
Absolutely. Yeah. Cuz they're now they're now the face of your company in so many ways because they're the first people that someone encounters
Darleen Priday
1,000% I have been in virtual staffing for many years, and I've, you know, I'm in a different company, and I have people still calling me be like, Darlene, do you remember talking to me? Like four years ago, I'm ready now. And I'm like, Okay, I'm at a different company, you know, I don't care. I you know, they don't care where I am, because they know I'm not going to be in alignment with something that is not true to my core values. So they know that the service they are going to get is regardless of what company I'm at is going to be the same because of my integrity versus just selling something.
Adam Liette
I thought you guys would love this episode Dennett, I, I told you, because it's such a judo flip on on the sales conversation that we've heard over and over and over again, of the sell now close now close now. I'm not going to name names, but we all know who they are. I was on one particularly obnoxious one about six months ago, they're gonna be trying to get me to fly to some conference and make the decision now. And my brother, I got a wife, man I get. Yeah, I can't just do that. And that the sleazy way, they tried to then spin it. I'm like, No, nah, fam. Like that's done. And so it really kind of poisoned the brand for me in so many ways, and will ever go back and buy something again, I don't know. But I think where we're going at overall is that the type of people we work with, they're at this wavelength. And conversely, we are too. And so if we're not operating on that similar wavelength, we're only setting ourselves up for not being happy not we might achieve the business goals that we want to achieve. But at what price. And I think that's the biggest thing that comes with so many of our types of clients is at what price and that's a price they're not willing to pay.
Darleen Priday
You know, that's a great point. Because it's not like those your tactics, and those hard cells are not successful they are people are making a lot of money out there doing it. So my way is not what we're talking about today is not going to resonate with everybody. And that's fine. If that's not where you want to be. If you want to go that you know your tactic road or whatever, that's fine. I, I prefer to be able to put my head on a pillow at night, and feel good about what I do. And it's so rewarding. It is just so rewarding to see people flourish. And especially the people that I work with, when they're empowered, and they're calling me up and they have a success. I am I am their cheerleader, I want to see this them succeed. And again, get out of their own way because people have gone before me and helped me too. And by the way, you could learn from even the worst salespeople, we can learn from everybody, right? Sometimes you get those calls, and you're like, that's not who I want to be, or that is who I want to be. So you can learn from all the different things. I listened to a ton of podcasts, I listened to a ton of, you know, sales, coaching and different things. And even when it's not 100% sitting with me, there's always those those golden nuggets that you can glean even if it's what not to do.
Adam Liette
100% Yeah, you learned so much from people you don't want to be like, and that's not a bad thing. Take stock of it, understand why and move forward from there. And what I love the most about all this and this is my guilty pleasure operator level way of looking at everything is that it's a system. You're following a process, you're following a roadmap. And whenever we put things into systems, they work more naturally, there's less of that friction, but we're able to operate from our place of best intentions rather than just, you know, poking around everyday trying to figure it out and said we like have the game plan have the have the roadmap right in front of us on what to follow.
Darleen Priday
Yes, and following those systems and following those different instructions so to speak, until you have the confidence kind of, you know, use them as just guard rails and then operate within those systems is a beautiful thing, because then you come into your own.
Adam Liette
I love it. Well, we're going to talk again, because I am a big fan of this approach. I'm definitely keen to try more of it myself. Because it's a never ending thing. And I think the beauty of being a solopreneur. Or, heck you can be, you know, have a team already. If you want to change tactics, you want to change approaches, because something doesn't feel right, you should be empowered to do that. And if Darlene is the right person for you, I'm gonna definitely link to her her stuff here in the show notes. But I think this is definitely a different approach is a breath of fresh air. In a world that I think so many of us look at right now, the like, I don't think this is really what I want. So where can people learn more about you, Darlene?
Darleen Priday
Yeah, so if they go to my web site, DP dash consults.com, I have some information on my my sales intensive and there's also a way to just reach out to me on there, and also LinkedIn, I'm very active on LinkedIn, I try to put a lot of value out there too. So if somebody's interested in chatting and not being hard sold. I'm happy to do so.
Adam Liette
Thank you so much, Darlene, this has been an absolute pleasure. Like I said, breath of fresh air. And if you came into this episode thinking, oh god, they're gonna talk about pressure tactics, or, Oh, this sales thing that I've heard 100 times. I told you, we aren't going to do that. And I'm, I'm so happy that our paths have crossed and that you're out there doing what you're doing in the world because it's it's helping a lot of people so thank you for that.
Darleen Priday
Thank you, Adam. It was a pleasure.
Adam Liette
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