Sunday, September 17, 2023
Are we living within our value system in our business?
Within all of us, there are personal values and workplace values. These may have similarities, but they have distinct differences as well.
Today I’m talking to Kelsea Warren from The Seamless Coach. Kelsea works with individuals and businesses to elevate their well-being and prevent burnout by identifying and aligning their workplace values.
Discover how:
1. If we’re not living within our values we’re likely to feel a lot of dissonance in our professional lives
2. How to create organizational values as documented and perceived values
3. Why your values must be reflected in the actions that your company takes
4. What to do when burnout occurs, including several tips and causes that may surprise you
5. Ways to build and manage our teams to help them work at their highest level of fulfillment
Kelsea is an absolutely amazing and giving person that I’m really honored to know personally in addition to having worked with on a professional level.
I guarantee you’ll get at least a couple of tips from this amazing episode of the podcast.
Work with Kelsea: https://theseamlesscoach.com/
Kelsea on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theseamlesscoach
Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com
Discover how to work with me: https://www.adamliette.com/work-with-me
20 Business Owners Lives Will Change In 2024...
...And I’m Personally Inviting You To Be One Of Them!
Transcript
Adam Liette
What's up smoothie operators, welcome to Friday, so glad to have you hope you've had a great week. And as always, it's time for another interview. And I always say this, I'm like a broken record because I have the best guest ever. And it's just like, time after time, I'm just, I don't know, it's wonderful how the universe aligns us with amazing people. When you put yourself out there when you connect at a, you know, more than surface level. As you know, it's not just like Facebook DMing level, but we you actually get to meet people get to work with people. It this is an amazing place. And so that's why I can't wait for this episode. So just, I've worked with this, the guests that I'm bringing on, I've worked with her professionally before and she's one of those people that came into my life at the exact right time where I really needed support, I needed people to point me in the right direction to help me unclutter a lot of the stuff that I had built up in my own brain, and led to a ton of success for me both personally and professionally. Which is why I'm super geeking out about having Kelsey Warren from the seamless coach on the show. Kelsey works with individuals and businesses to help them elevate their well being and prevent burnout by identifying and aligning their workplace values. So that's a loaded topic, right? But really, we're gonna get down to some really tangible outputs, things you can start employing right here right now, in your own life and with your team. I can't wait, let's just jump straight to it. Because I got Kelsey right here. Kelsey, how are you doing today?
Kelsea Warren
I am doing well. Thanks for asking. I'm super excited to be here. And thank you for that introduction. That was I could cry right now.
Adam Liette
Absolutely. Well, you know, when I got you booked, I'm like, I'm so excited. That's great. So do Kelsey, tell us a little bit about yourself and about your journey to the seamless coach.
Kelsea Warren
All right, well, I will keep it short. We'll keep it brief, as brief as I can. So just a little bit about me personally, we live in North Carolina, I have a wonderful husband, I've almost 10 years, I have a three year old daughter, two dogs sitting right here. So I apologize in advance if they get a little wild. My background is actually more in the clinical mental health space, have about eight years there in different capacities as a clinical therapist and former social worker, now pursuing a PhD in organizational psychology, which is very exciting. And this is where this well being and burnout and values, topics come from, it's always been of interest for me. So really, it was about me, combining my workplace values, what I was discovering them to be some changed over time, and combining the clinical education and experience that I had with business. So when we work together that was definitely in a business coaching and leadership's type situation. And I enjoyed working with small businesses so much. It just kind of made sense to me like, Okay, I love this, I love being around these people. And I think I'm also an entrepreneur, at the same time, it was like this realization all at once. And so that all kind of mushed together, what I would call my professional purpose. So it is aligning everything with my values, my education experience, where I need to be and just what I would call like my superpowers, I guess, as a coach and consultant. That is the professional side of things. I hope that covered it.
Adam Liette
You know, it's funny, you said that because I had the same realization, like I didn't know, I was an entrepreneur, I didn't know I had this drive in me until I found out and discovered who I really was. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like that personal realization. Just looking back at that moment in space, where I'm like, holy crap.
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, and owning that too. Right? Like it's such a like, it's one thing to recognize it but then to fully step into it. Like it's such the whole, like unwinding of a lot of things and then as I reflected on like, Wait, I've actually owned several businesses even from the time I was like a kid I just like never considered them businesses or even if they were they're always just hobbies never occurred to me that it would be like a lifetime profession and now that it is just mind blown every single day.
Adam Liette
Basically. Love it and you know, enables us to live a life life of purpose, a life of fulfillment. And, you know, there's, it's kind of leads into a great first topic where, you know, we talk, you hear a lot of so called experts talk about work life balance, or like what it means to have that balanced life and I find it so like, there's no number to it. Because when we're living from purpose, it's just a different paradigm, because we're just excited and we want to work because it's fulfilling this inner need. And like, Have you experienced that? And like, what would you say about that topic?
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, that is an interesting one. I think the word balance is really hard. It's something intangible. If I were to ask you or seven other people in the room, everyone would say that means something different to them. And so it's like, what is it? Who has it? You know, how do I get it. And so for me, when I'm talking about it, like relating to burnout, specifically, it's, it's inclusive of boundaries, but also values and being mindful in the moment, like if you have the ability to be mindful and present in the moment where you are at, regardless of what you're doing. To me, that is what I would consider, you know, work life balance, and also, again, tapping into those values. So if you are living out of alignment with your values, either workplace values or personal values, it's going to feel like friction, always, it's like, there's something in the back of your mind where you feel like you need to be somewhere that you're not, or you're doing something that you shouldn't be, for some reason. And for some people, like, the degree of that impact varies, but that definitely also contributes, you know, if you can find like in center around your values, then you use those to make decisions on what you should and shouldn't be doing.
Adam Liette
Oh, that's so interesting. And I think we opened up a can of worms there, because we didn't talk about values. You know, there's, if you ask them on what their values are, they're likely going to kind of give you this jumbled mess of different values. But you know, in reading some of your some of your work prior to the interview, I know that we talked about personal values, and we talked about workplace values. So what what are some of the different differentiations? There? And how do they intermix with one another?
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, yeah, I think the answer to that is that they do intermix. So a lot of people have, let's say, humor, I think humor is one of my values, both personally and professionally, you've probably seen that like, even before we started this podcast, you probably saw it. So like that, it would be the one that like, translates. But I also am someone that to give an example, when I'm at work, I am at work like I am on, like 110%. And when I am at home, I am like laying on the couch, and I don't really want to move like I don't feel very extrinsically motivated to do much when I'm not working. So for me like those values, like the values of like leisure and peace are personal. And then on the professional side, it's like dedication, perseverance, like all these other things. And so to your point, they can be, you can have values that overlap. And you can also have values that are separate. When we talk about workplace values, specifically, the research points to when you have value alignment in your role and in your work environment. It not only contributes to wellbeing and job satisfaction, it's actually a protective factor against burnout.
Adam Liette
Hmm. It's interesting, and I wonder at the organizational level, because organizations have values too, right? And like, let's say I'm running a team, I'm the head of a team and like, how do I am I infusing my own values into the organization? Or am I the organization kind of taking it on its own set of values? Or is it kind of natural thing that the CEOs values are going to be reflected in the business?
Kelsea Warren
I think that is very dependent on the business. And I also think that there are documented business values and experienced business values by the employees specifically, right, and that shows up in your processes and procedures, the way that you plan how you reward and contribute to the organization. You know, if you say that you value a specific thing as an organization, and then operationally or behaviorally, you don't ever, you know, call out the employees that are embodying that value, or you don't promote the leaders that are doing those specific things. Then it kind of just gets lost in the sauce as you would say, like those. There's lived and experienced values by employees and there's also just what's on the wall. And so those when I'm work either work a lot more so with individuals than I do, I do some business consulting, but on the individual side, I think the frustration really does come or this friction that I mentioned, it comes when an organization says that they have specific values, and then those aren't carried out throughout. So From a CEO perspective, I think a CEO would have, you know, obviously some value or the whoever, you know, the founder of the business has values as well, personally and in the workplace. The organization may have separate values, or a set of values that they operate by strategically. And I think they all do overlap, but it can be different
Adam Liette
as well. Yeah. And you hit upon something so critical there, where you'll see these companies like mission statements. So here's our mission, here's what we do. But if it's not experience if it's not accompanied with action, so like, now, I'm wondering about all my values and trying to find actions to align to them? Yeah. Because I mean, action is our values in motion, right? And it's where we're actually, you know, making them tangible instead of just as pie in the sky. Hootenanny, right?
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, yeah. And also, I think what you just said, encompasses that beautiful act like action, our values in action, right. But also, they're a lens for decision making, too. So if you are not actively including your values in conversations around, you know, who you how hire, how you work, where you work, the planning the process, all of the projects you're working on, like I have a piece people processes, projects, procedures, you don't have your the dog now, if you if you don't have those things, your values aren't part of the conversation, then they're actually not present.
Adam Liette
Wow. So what do you say to someone who like, comes in? They said, Well, I don't know what my values are, like, how do we even determine what our values actually are? Versus googling? Best Values to have?
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, yeah, from from a workplace perspective. And I think people typically have a general idea of their personal values or what means the most to them. But from a workplace perspective, I think I always like to ask people, you know, when you think about the longevity of your career, what stands out to you the most as far as like, what made you feel successful? What projects did you enjoy the most? Is it really more of like a reflective process? Do you have a mentor? What values do they embody? What things do you feel like you've had to compromise on in your career, that is a big one that kind of draws out, like, the inverse things I don't want. So that is a good way as well. And also, I think it is important to just understand that your values can change over time. And for some, a lot of people, it's the realization that they've been holding on to values that no longer serve them, or values of other people, or society. And we're conditioned that way. You know, from the time we are children, right? We have mirror neurons and all these neuroscience fun things that you know what, as a baby, you're gonna go and do something, and then you think it's fun. And then you look back at your parent, and they're like, no, don't do that. Like that is wrong, right? From a natural age, we have like, all of these things that we want to go do. But we have parameters around that. And so over time, you know, you think about in high school, you had a specific teacher that really influenced you or your group, your friend group, but you know, you're kind of taking on all of these values from other people. And then as you get into the professional space, you are taking on value as mentors, you are taking on values of colleagues in the space wherever you Whatever industry you're in. And so to kind of almost check yourself in that moment, like, am I holding on to any values that are maybe not my own, or have my values shifted, I know, for me, when I had my daughter, that was a, like, pivotal moment for me of values, you know, part of the reason why I got out of therapy as far as from a values perspective, like flexibility, and like just the crisis work, and that was heavy, and my values shifted away from like, solely career focus to now I'm like, filming my time is split a little bit, for good reason. She's amazing. But that recognition for me, created a lot of like, shame and guilt around leaving, because I didn't accept at that point that my values had also changed and how I viewed my career and my relationship to my career had changed to.
Adam Liette
That's fascinating. And I felt that too, and leaving certain, like, I used to be in the military. And I've loved every second of it, and people will do it again. I'm like, you know, I actually would, but I started having kids. And so that my prime value now like, now, now that I'm past it, I can look back and reflect and be now and I'm aware of why I made those decisions, because it's actually my values were shifting. And so I had to shift my life to align with my new set of values. Yep. Yeah. Whoa, that's heavy. That's all that's all too heavy for Wednesday afternoon.
Kelsea Warren
Sorry about that. That can be a You can't be it's a process, right? And it's always going to it, they're gonna continue to change do as things go on, as you know, even from like a workforce perspective, you see that, you know, last year at great resignation this year, the great reshuffle, all of these things, this is not the first time that that's happened in the workforce, you look back and you see like, there was a certain level of work experience in the 50s. And then that drastically shifted in the 60s 70s, about how people worked and why they worked and where they placed values as far as work versus fun and play. But those happened as a result of like major cultural shifts as well. You had, you know, Viet Nam scenario, there was a lot going on at that time, there was just a lot of restructuring. And then here, obviously, the thing that shall not be named, you know, over the last few years, that's cause people I drastic reprioritization of values, as well. Because when you only have work in home, it becomes very clear what's misaligned for you. And those moments when you can't go out and experience like relationships and people and things.
Adam Liette
Yeah. And I see all these pushes from managers to like, bring people back to the workforce and stop remote work. I'm like, I don't think it's gonna be easy as you think it is guys, like, people realign their lives over a couple year timeframe. And it's not just that's not a subtle shift. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I know, personally, I'm ruined from ever working in office ever again. And I'm okay with that.
Kelsea Warren
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it does definitely get a little lonely sometimes. Die. Well, I
Adam Liette
bought that. But yeah, that's why we have the dogs.
Kelsea Warren
Exactly. I have two co workers sitting right here. So yeah, I think just for context, as far as like burnout, great resignation workforce, in general, what we're looking at right now, especially this, you know, you're speaking to people that lead teams, that understanding that your employees are going through what you just said, like that's heavy, they're all going through it because we have had like they have to, it has been a reprioritization for a lot of people have what they value at work, and not only what they do for work, but how they work as well.
Adam Liette
Right. And one thing that's really kind of saved been a saving grace, for me, working remote working alone is solopreneur is the relationships that I've built in the various networks that I built. And it's an interesting thing that kind of connected in my head as you're talking is that when we talk about values, and personal values, and organizational values, or professional values, I should say, it is reflective of what we're experiencing in society, society definitely has an impact. And that's been true, since, you know, Pavlov, you know, every single organizational psychology book will talk about this. So I think it's very critical to when you're building those networks and building those support groups, you're you're aligning with people that are aligned at that level, right?
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, definitely. And I think it's good to surround yourself with different thinkers, but also I like to view your career your as a relationship truly, because it's the most intimate relationship you're ever going to be in with, with yourself. And so it's like the like the longest like, the harder you have to just, you can't escape it in most cases, unless you have that, like, you know, financial freedom, right. So it is something that you want to do it with people that have similar values to you same as same as if you were going to find a spouse or a partner in life, like you may have differences of opinions. But fundamentally, those values should be primarily aligned.
Adam Liette
I love it. Well, I'm gonna have to do some serious journaling already. I can tell from this. I have to use a journal.
Kelsea Warren
So you download.
Adam Liette
She does, yes, it will be linked on the show notes. Because journaling, if you're not doing it yet, guys is amazing. Like you're gonna unlock some serious baggage with and it's going to be painful at first. But there's a there's, there's a beauty at the end of it. And same with meditation, which I never thought meditation would be part of my life. And here it is.
Kelsea Warren
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Adam Liette
Fantastic. Okay. Well, we, you know, we don't wanna go too far down the full rabbit hole, because we have a lot of different topics. And we want to talk about I've experienced this myself, it kind of goes hand in hand with the last couple of years and the stressors, all these external externalities that bled into what we're doing. Like burnout became a real thing for me as we were first meeting several years ago. Like, how do we like what is burnout, like, at the, at the Mint, really at the mental level? How do we know when we're burning out and like, what can we do about that?
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, yeah, I think that there are all A lot of opinions about this out there, I'm going to speak to what the research says just because that is who I am. And also just work with clients in general what I have seen as far as like cycles of burnout. So burnout, work related burnout. Now it's coming out, I want to preface that there are no caregiver burnout, there are like different forms of burnout at this stage. But true, burnout from work is not always just about overworking. So I would just want to make that clear. And I think sometimes the assumption that it is an individual only problem or issue is actually untrue. So what the research will say, as far as the spectrum of like, who's I don't want to say whose fault but like the root cause of burnout? It's actually a little bit of in the middle as far as is it an organizational issue? Or is it an individual or employee issue. So on an individual level, there are is you know, evidence to support that people that have higher tendencies toward neuroticism, perfectionism, people pleasing, we don't know what those things are. But that you, you tend to lean more toward burnout, because of the because of the way your values lie. And like just what you're talking about how work feels like home, right, like work to you is, and so shutting it off becomes difficult. And then on the other end, from an organizational perspective, this is where you get into the demands and resources model. So we have to also recognize that when burnout at work, you are not only dealing with individuals, but you are dealing with demands at work and proposed resources at work to deal with those demands. And demands at work could look like a whole list of things. Some of the top ones that you see most frequently are things like workload, but it could also be ambiguity. It can be like micromanagement, it could be team dynamic issues, it can be value misalignment for you. And there's also personal stress that can come into play there that can carry over and bleed into the the organizational side of things. But I think where we missed the mark and get it wrong, is when the resources come into play. So a lot of organizations will push resources, here's the day off, you know, do more self care. And they're not either adjusting the demands that are specifically at work, or they're not providing enough resources at work. And so resources at work and look like value alignment, it can look like autonomy, so giving people the freedom, flexibility to be creative in their roles to be innovative. It can look like structure and support, right, having a clear direction, knowing where you're going. It can look like team cohesion, supportive leadership. But it can also be more tangible things as far as you know, especially in small businesses, having a project management system, or having a system of communication at all, you know, if you're all just texting on your phones, like that's a probably a demand on your employees at that point, not considered a resource. And so that also brings up another point like things can be demanding a resource, depending on like how they're being utilized to which, you know, that makes processes procedures. So much more important, right? If people are your employees don't know that they exist, or they don't exist at all, then you're likely dealing with a demand instead of a resource.
Adam Liette
Whoa, I just had a lightbulb moment there, I tell you, cuz you're talking about what is it ends up becoming a demand on our people we're working with? I've met with so many people who, like, Yeah, I know, like, that system will work. I don't like it, though. And I'm like, well, it's not always about you, brother. It's like you got to do the best for the organization. Because I know from a managerial perspective, plus a team member perspective that especially you had a micromanaging that transactional management that's exhausting from both ends. But it's like our default and how we actually manage things instead of empowering and enabling. And a lot of times men, correct me if I'm wrong, like it comes down to having really candid conversations and allowing your team to be open to you and you being open to your team. Right?
Kelsea Warren
Absolutely. And there's a you know, especially in the small business space, there's really a lot of I don't want to say there's no reason for it. But there are so many tools that you can use as resources to overcome some of those challenges. Like I like you mentioned, I don't like the way this is, I think of something like Asana, for example, multiple ways you can view things. So my Operations Assistant loves the list view, I can't stand it makes my brain hurt. And so I prefer the board view like there are tools out there that allow people to just do what They're gonna do get to the same result. And they it mean, it removes so much friction for them. And it's no longer like, I would much rather use a project management system and view it as a resource than something that frustrates me and is then in demand.
Adam Liette
You know, I, I've always because I'm an Asana junkie, I'm a nerd on it. And I've built multiple million dollar companies on Asana, I want
Kelsea Warren
to see it, versus ours is in the works.
Adam Liette
Well, I mean, I have a coaching program for that counseling. But
Kelsea Warren
We'll chat later.
Adam Liette
It's funny, because I'm a list guy. And you're not you're you want the board's. And I've always want I've always been like, why do you guys make both these available and the same thing, and now it's like dawned on me that Asana was actually really brilliant, and making the same project visible in multiple different formats, to accommodate different ways of digesting and perceiving information flows? Yeah,
Kelsea Warren
absolutely. And then that gets even deeper into how right how you work. So and also, like, gets into all of the talk about like diversity, or diversity, equity inclusion, like in your employees as well, like, I am neurodivergent. So like that I have kind of that lens as well. But like, I think that if you are thinking about things in the lens of how can we make this a resource for people? Or if it's not something that can be changed like that, like not every process system or protocol, can be adaptable to the end on an individual level, but then the question then becomes, like, how can I coach and support and provide resources at work, to help make this still considered a resource, instead of a demand on this person? It's
Adam Liette
so cool. That opens up so many possibilities of what we can do. Because, I mean, you hit the nail on the head, like, oh, we'll give you self care days and wellness days, like yeah, that's, that's cool. I
Kelsea Warren
mean, we love those. Yeah, we love those. But it's not gonna, if you are fundamentally burned out due to demands being too high and not having enough resources at work. And the root cause of burnout for you is something at work, doing self care is not going to cure burnout for you. And it's why people get so frustrated, especially, you know, we are into January now, having a long period of time off, and then feeling that same existential dread having to go back to work as if you only took one day off, when you really had a week off, right? Then you know, that you're truly in for an hour, just so as far as like spotting burnout, and what it looks like, how to, you know, there are dimensions of burnout that are actually pretty. Across the board, like, everyone experiences these things, it starts with emotional exhaustion can also manifest as physical exhaustion, obviously, as well. But that's kind of where it starts. And so this is where it gets tricky, especially for managers, employees, and just in general to recognize it, because who isn't exhausted right now? Right, like the world in general is exhausting, but just know, that's how it starts. It's like, and you can see it in your people, the maybe you have people that are very watch your high performers, you know, like you're the people that typically are producing a specific level of work or always providing input. If those people stop talking and meetings, stop providing their input and value like that as a good like flag of like, their switches pulling back for some reason. Maybe it's something at home, but like, let's check in like, is there something else going on here? And then you move into cynicism, wonderful. So like this deep seated, like mistrust for whatever reason. And it's because, like, fundamentally you are you have demands and resources. And so when you feel like there's just demands, demands, demands, and people aren't giving you either the resources that you need to address the root cause or just no resources at all, no support, then that trust is beginning like it's getting broken down like little by little that I'm like, not supported. I'm not valued. My opinion doesn't matter. And so you get into this like cycle of cynicism and resentment toward work. And that once you're there, I mean, everyone's probably either been there or been around someone that is like that, and it is a really hard thing to manage. It's hard to recognize first because you're cynical, like you don't know you're cynical, if you're being like, hi, like I'm being negative all the time, like you don't often realize that until someone else calls it out or you take a step back, and you're out of it and like reflect. So that's stage two. So if you start to notice, like negativity in your team, or you're getting pushback from people that are typically on board with things and it's like not that the push back is bad, but push back like that doesn't seem fitting for the situation like exaggerated almost. So then you get into And then the third dimension is reduced professional efficacy, which is essentially confidence in your ability to get things done in the way that you were typically used to. So when you go through exhaustion, and then you have cynicism or resentment, you get to this reduced professional efficacy, you might be dropping balls, either intentionally or unintentionally. And your confidence is like slowly being eroded over time. And so this is where burnout gets really not dangerous, maybe for some people. Because if you stay in it too long, what that does to your like, long term, your career confidence and professional efficacy. And what also happens is you bounce back and forth between I'm dropping balls, I usually don't, and I feel guilty about it. But I'm also resentful, so I don't really care that I'm doing it. It's like, okay, well work is work. But then I still feel guilty because I'm this is not my, like, not my norm. And typically, it's going against values that come along with high performers as far as like, achievement and things. So you get stuck in the cycle, like back and forth, like I am tired, and I don't care. But I also like worry about the job that I'm doing and the output that I'm doing. And then I'm exhausted, but I also feel guilty. It's just like, it's a cycle that if you don't pull someone out of it, they will either leave, they will mess something up, like to an extreme amount at times, or, you know, they just get further into it can turn into like a depressive or anxious type situation. And then you have long term effects like on your mental health you have on your physical health as far as like blood pressure and your heart things like all these. So the impact of burnout can actually be permanent, if not address
Adam Liette
Oh, my gosh, I think we've all felt it at certain times. Is it at employee level and manager level? C level? I mean, it's, it's kind of a, I don't want to say it's an inevitability because that's Gosh, that sucks. But like, I think if you're managing people and you're around people, it's a matter, it's inevitable that you're going to encounter this at some point with either yourself or the people that you're working with. Yeah. So let's say it's someone else, like when we talk about getting in front of it with them like inner interdicting, like, if we notice someone's becoming cynical, like what can we do to just to intercede and try to be that? I mean, good boss is one thing, but just good person is another thing like how, what can we do? Yeah, and
Kelsea Warren
it can be a hard space, because it's also frustrating to witness like, if you have ever, like had a friend or a partner, even that is in burnout, and you're just like, can you please talk about something other than work like ranting about it? Right? But from a management perspective, obviously, you know, going in and just naming the behavior is gonna put people on high alert and triggered. So if you just go into the conference, hey, I noticed you were being really cynical in the meeting. Not the best approach, right? But if you are starting to notice that it's almost like calling out the behavior without naming it. And so essentially, like, Hey, I noticed you were blank in this meeting. Can you tell me more about that? Or I noticed you had pushback in this area? Can you tell me more about like, true curiosity as far as like, not assuming because there, I mean, to be clear, there could also be personal issues going on. We are humans, we're gonna bring our full selves to work, regardless of people think we should or not, like, that's just how it is. So first of all, knowing your people like even prior to that, like being able to pick up on those differences, because I think some people just completely will miss that change anyway, they'll miss the shift and the personality or the performance, which is why I think it's really good to have regular one on ones with your employees to know that it's really good to have some sort of metrics or KPIs to keep track of the output that they're doing. So that when you go and have these conversations, like you have tangible evidence to say like, Hey, like, this has been happening, but then you also have tangible evidence to provide a resource or a solution, as well. So I don't know if that answered your question. But, I mean, ultimately, you would want to be proactive and knowing your people, but when you're going to address the conversation, it's how can I support you, but also not from a lens of like, I'm just I'm here to listen. It's like, How can I ask where, where's the root cause for you what's actually causing this? And how can we support in either decreasing a demand or providing a resource to help assist? So if you look at, for example, this person's KPIs, and they're doing way more than any other person in that role in the organization. How can we reduce some of the demands on that person to help or let's say, burnout can also happen because of boredom. Um, so if you are looking at this, and this person's like, I'm just feeling really unfulfilled, and you go back and look and like they don't have much to do. That could be the root cause as well. And so how can you either increase demand or provide a resource in the form of, Okay? Would you feel more filled, you know, going in mentoring in this area? Like, we really don't have a lot for you to do today or this week or this month? Like, is there anything else you're interested in, like those kinds of conversations, and just acknowledging that the root cause of burnout, absolutely can be something within the organization, not just within the person, I think is the mindset that every manager needs to have.
Adam Liette
And that's a hard thing for us as as CEOs to acknowledge. But I think it's important that you said that, that we acknowledge that and understand that, that we could very well be the cause. And, like, are you guys, y'all y'all listen to talking to you listeners, we hold on to look at the mirror a little bit, because sometimes it is us, you know, which is, but I love what you what you said there about it is the one to one, like I'm a firm advocate of one to ones anyone in my program knows that, like one to ones have saved employees from a before where I was able to get in front of an issue. Because of those one to ones I used to be able to develop really strong relationships because of that. But I love that we're not just like listening with flowers and sunshine and lollipops. But we have KPIs and we're working towards those we're giving our team the tangible objectives to right.
Kelsea Warren
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if you know the values of it, because the the values of your employees are going to be different, okay, no one has the same values like similar. But if you also know the values of your employees pretty well, or how they work best, right, then you can, like help them also navigate conversations around where they feel like they're misaligned within the organization. For example, if someone really values team collaboration, and they're been really siloed, on a lot of projects lately, like that can create a misalignment and just like a, but that's hard for someone like on the outside, I can say that. But if you were in that, it would be really hard to identify like, I value team collaboration, I just feel like I'm always working on projects by myself, like that would be a hard thing for an employee to identify. So when you know your people and you know how they work best and what they really, truly value at work, then you can help assist in that way, as well.
Adam Liette
So is that something we should even do? Like if we're, when we're bringing people into the organization? As far as like discovering their values? Is that like in the pre hire process? The posts? Like
Kelsea Warren
I think it should be I absolutely think value should be a part of the employee lifecycle, like 100%. And also like, the organization still has values and metrics and things to uphold as well. So by no means, am I saying like always cater to employees. But I think when the values as we talked at the beginning, when the values are consistent across the organization, and employees know what to expect going in, like, I know that, you know, if this company has value of people over profit, for example, like, and they don't actively see that in the onboarding, the hiring, interviewing, onboarding, training, in the development and leadership plans in who's promoted. Yeah, right. And even in onboarding like that, it creates a mistrust as well, there, because if I have a set of values, and I'm clear on what those are, and I go to an organization, thinking that they have similar values, and I don't, that creates friction.
Adam Liette
I said guess the other day, he gave me a quote, great quote, and it's, I think it's good when used properly, but as lean into the friction, this is a different type of friction. We're talking about
Kelsea Warren
uncomfortable, like something's wrong alarm bells type friction.
Adam Liette
Yes. Versus the we got it's got to work this out friction, which, if you've been in business for more than 10 minutes, you've been in friction, because it's inevitable. Absolutely, yeah, definitely. Very cool. I've loved this conversation so much, and getting a lot of ideas and a lot of self reflection, which is always dangerous, in a good way. But I want to wrap things up by really talking about, like taking care of ourselves, because it's such a critical part of what we're doing. And I'm always hesitant to give people like my self care tips, because I'm like, well, will that work for everyone? Or maybe I'm just being wishy washy about it? I don't know. Or maybe it's because I'm still discovering my own best self care tactics. How do you encourage well being self care amongst your followers and your client?
Kelsea Warren
I'm gonna sound like a broken record probably at this point, but truly like going back to your values as well, but not in the sense of I mean, I would say values based self care however, like, it takes a moment of reflection of like, what's gonna work for me is not what's gonna work for everyone. And yes, we can take inspiration from people, you know, all the social media is just pushing like, skincare that isn't like workout that like, all of the things right. But like, if you have a need in a specific area, then using self care to address that need, is going to be most beneficial for you. So a lot of people will just say, I'm taking a whole day off, because they everyone says that I need to but this is actually not what I needed, I what I needed to do is go and make my doctor's appointment. You know, those are, and I'm not saying like, don't take, I want to be clear, I love days off and vacation. But I think for me what I would recommend everyone do. And so I like to break things up in three categories. You your role, and your work environment. Three dimensions that you can use to journal or reflect and think about, okay, what's going on for me personally, right now, and what needs work in my role, what's going well, and what needs work and same in the work environment, and what needs work and the work environment encompasses other people, it encompasses your physical workspace, regardless of where you work, right, you've remote or not, encompasses company culture, in general, your work is like literally the work you're doing your time and task management, you know, conditions for flow, if you are in a role that allows for that, like, your level of impact, etc. And then on the personal side, like your habits and routines, your thought themes, I like to call them thought themes instead of limiting beliefs. Like the stories, the stories that you tell yourself, right, so addressing the need in that area. So like, you may have a self care ritual, but also be that you love and enjoy, do those things, but also be reflective, like what this week, what do I like feel like I need more of like what needs more attention in this area, right for me. And so that is the lens that I would recommend everyone use as far as taking care of yourself. And being proactively proactive with burnout is doing those things before you get to the cynicism and the resentment because once you're in that it almost feels like I just want to do nothing. And what we're doing there is remove a lot of times we find ourselves removing the things actually give us energy, thinking, I just need rest, I just need to do nothing because I feel overwhelmed. And what we don't realize is that we've removed all the things that charge the battery. Right? So people will you know, I'm just gonna go lay down and take a nap instead of go and sit on the patio and read a book in the sunshine. When that's really what will give you energy not necessarily and I'm, you know, it that's an example, if you need a nap, go take a nap. But like, a lot of times, it's like, Oh, I'm tired. So I'm not gonna go to this dinner on a Friday night with my friends because I need to rest but really like, I'm an extrovert and I need to go be recharged by these people, you know, like, be take note of what you have taken away over time that is giving you energy and what little things can you add back in to help supplement
Adam Liette
that is so great, because it's so directive of just like, I think in general becoming more self aware of all these things. And journaling can help you get there just meditation. Even you said the stories we tell ourselves and we all have our stories. And it's a good thing I work out early in the morning because I like tell myself stories when I'm on a run or a walk. And it's crazy. Like the things you'll find yourself saying,
Kelsea Warren
Oh yeah, the processing, I take a morning walk every morning, I posted on my Instagram, like what my thoughts are for the day. And that is when I write the best caption. So I always do have my phone because I'm just like, noting away and they're like, I think it's a good thing. But that's not true necessarily for everyone, I think like not my field of expertise. But I know that there's like evidence out there that like movement in the morning is beneficial for your brain and all the things but like being you know, allowing yourself some sort of space for self reflection, regardless of what it is throughout the day. I think it's a really important thing.
Adam Liette
So awesome. Now I'm gonna have some new habits to install, because so many of these things habit stack, right, like we just put more ones on and we might drop the ones that aren't serving us anymore. You know, just because you've been doing something for two years. It's not serving you anymore. Don't be afraid to move on from it because we're constantly evolving creatures. I mean, absolutely. nology has known that forever. Yeah,
Kelsea Warren
and even And in business to like they're like, depending on your industry, there are going to be times when it's really busy. And there's going to be times when it's not so busy. And so you also have to adjust. You know what resources you're giving yourself in relation to the demands that you have at work, too.
Adam Liette
So cool. Well, I could geek out all day with you, Kelsey. But I do know you, you have a very busy day ahead as UI. So where can our listeners discover more about you?
Kelsea Warren
Yes, so I made it easy for everyone. I am the seamless coach on all things a primarily on Tiktok and Instagram, but my website that's seamless coach.com, LinkedIn, Kelsey, the seamless go, everything's the seamless coach. That's where you can find me. I love to chat. So feel free to reach out.
Adam Liette
Fantastic. Well, we'll link to all those here in the show notes. And just from a personal basis, like if you are, if some of this stuff hit home, please reach out to Kelsey, she's an expert in this and I can say that as someone that got a whole hell of a lot of help from her at a very tough time in my own life. And just from my personal self, thank you for what you do. Thank you for the person you are. You're making a difference in the world. I'm so happy that our paths have crossed and hope we continue to stay in touch because it's good having good people in your life. Kelsey,
Kelsea Warren
I agree with values online. Thank you for that. You're gonna make me cry, so I have to leave now.
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