Have you ever wondered why people act the way they do?

Today I’m thrilled to bring on someone that I’ve worked with professionally, Deanna Pecina from Leading by Type. She’s an expert in communication and helping leaders understand how to best serve those they work with.

When you unlock these secrets, you’ll have a greater understanding of yourself and everyone around you. And be better positioned to react with greater empathy and skill in every interaction you have.

Working with Deanna has been a game changer for me personally, so I’m thrilled to be bringing this episode to you.

Work with Deanna: https://leadingbytype.com/

Leading by Type Podcast: https://leadingbytype.buzzsprout.com/

Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com

Discover how to work with me: https://www.adamliette.com/work-with-me

Transcript

Adam Liette
Right, welcome to the show, smooth operators. It's Friday, you know what that means. We have our interview Friday, and I have a very, incredibly, I'm so honored on this interview, I'm bringing someone on who I've worked with professionally, she's helped me so much in understanding not only how to be a leader in in the business, but really just she helped me understand a lot about myself. And when I came to her I was we are at the point of scaling the business and I was half broken, I had just had this weight on my back for so many years. And she just, she helped me take it off my back, helped me see my suit, true superpowers helped me find my voice. And I just I can't express enough gratitude for what she's done to me or done. For me. It's been an absolute pleasure. And now I get to have her on my show. So this is like, doubly exciting. So I have Deanna Pacino with me. She's from leading by type. And, Deanna, thank you so much for joining us on smooth operator, how are you today?

Deanna Pecina
I'm great. I'm so excited to be here. This is going to be fun. We always had the best conversations before. So I'm excited to dig in and see what comes up today.

Adam Liette
Oh, you were always the best at calling me out on my bullcrap. To

Deanna Pecina
the it's my, it's my secret power.

Adam Liette
It is. Because I might have to edit now I will have to edit this. Awesome. Deana. Tell us a little bit about your journey, how you came to this place and some of your superpowers.

Deanna Pecina
So in a nutshell, and in a previous life before children, I have 16 year old twin boys. And so before they were born, I was very much into my career and never imagined a world where I wasn't teaching all day long. And so I was a teacher, I was a school administrator, I was both a high school assistant principal and a middle school principal. And quickly realized when I was a principal that it was not what I was meant to do. And it was one of those things where I had been on this pathway where I felt like I was taking the next right step and the next right step and everyone else around me was progressing similarly, and so it felt like the right thing to do. And it just was a whore not I wouldn't I don't want to say horrible. That's that's not true. It was a challenging time. I know your military. My husband was deployed to Iraq during that time. So it was just a really stressful time for me personally, and that spilled over into the professional. But also, knowing what I know now that type of a role is not a good match for my personality and for how I'm hardwired. So I can look back and provide myself a little bit of grace, knowing that it's just not a good fit. And it's not anything doesn't say anything about me or the quality of my character. It's just not a good fit. And so from there when our boys were born, military life took us all over the world, we moved five times in seven years. So that made it really hard for me, made it really hard for me to find my groove. And so I found my way into the online space during that time. And when we finally moved back to the United States, I got certified as a Maxwell team leadership team member, which is through John Maxwell. And so that is what led me to my disc certification. And then you and I met when I was working for someone else. And I tremendously I learned a lot from that experience, and made the decision to leave that position to go back to school about a year ago. And here I am.

Adam Liette
And unfortunately, you Yeah, that's a we met when she was working for Alex scharffen. You guys have heard Alex's name on this show before just made such a tremendous difference in my life. And so am I going to promote someone else's podcast on my podcast? Yes, I am. Because it's great. Listen to the momentum podcast. It's fantastic. I love what you said there Danna and it hit on it right right at the forefront, like knowing your personality and like, how you're hardwired and what was the best fit for you? And like, how do we know our personalities? What type of tools do you recommend? Or have you found to be the best way of actually gauging our personalities and finding out more about ourselves?

Deanna Pecina
Well, so for me there, there are two two tools that I utilize, I obviously utilize the DISC assessment. And so the DISC assessment is a behavior behavioral analysis tool. And it provides us insight into how we show up in the world behaviorally. And it's something where you can observe it in other people, which is why I say that that's my superpower. Because when I know your DISC profile, and I can observe you, I can pick up on things that are going on, because your, your DiSC Profile tells me a lot about what's you know, what's underneath, or why you might be having a struggle or why there might be a problem. And then the the Enneagram is a tool that I feel is more for your own personal development, it can help you understand other people, but it's a tool to help you really get to the core of what motivates you. What are your core fears? What are your core desires? What is it that you want from the world because it does affect how you show up, but I can't observe your motivations. I can observe your behaviors, but I can't observe your motivations. So to me, the DiSC helps you understand yourself and others. And then the Enneagram is a tool that helps you really go deep and understand your personal motivations and why you might get stuck. And repeat the same patterns over and over again. Hmm.

Adam Liette
I love that because we all hit that point where you're you can only force yourself so much to do, like, we tell ourselves these stories, we tell ourselves this, oh, here's the person I'm going to be Well, dude, that's not who you are. But instead of trying to force around, pay into a square hole, like find out who you are, find out what motivates you. And instead of trying to mold this perfect vision of yourself, lean into who you are, because that's your, that's gonna allow you to be your most authentic self, it's gonna allow you to not fake the funk, and not fake it till you make it or anything like that. But really just embrace what you already have inside you. Because we can't really run from that anyway, like these, these aren't things that really change or do they?

Deanna Pecina
Well, you know, your disc can change a little bit over time, but it's influenced by heredity. It's influenced by role models that you have before the age of 10. And then it's, it's influenced by your experiences. So it can be a little bit fluid, but it's not going to change that much over time. And your Enneagram is going to stay consistent. So you brought up a really good analogy, because this was something that I actually on my walk the other day was thinking that it matters, who we learn from. Because if let's say you are a square peg, right, and you're trying to learn from somebody who's a round peg, and they're really, really good at taking that round peg and getting it into that hole and making it fit perfectly every single time. But if you're a square peg, you're never going to fit into that that round hole, or the you know, a triangle peg, whatever you want to say, you might be able to shave off some edges and try to you know, fit it in. But it's not ever going to fit perfectly because it's not a good match. So if you're someone, for example, who is a high D on the DISC profile, and you are trying to learn from somebody who has a high C, it's probably not going to be as good of a fit as if you had someone that aligned with you more so where you can see how they think. And you can understand how they think. And you can apply it because it's natural to you. You know, I've been in situations where I was in a job. And it wasn't with scharffen. So I want to just clarify that. But I was being asked to do sales. And he was just like, oh, and I did it because it was my job. But I hated every single second of it because it just felt so inauthentic and icky to me. So that when I did go to scharffen, I said, I'll do anything you asked me to do. Just don't ever ask me to do sales, because it's just not my thing. And you can feel that when something's not a good fit for you. You have like a physical response to it. And I think that that applies to who you learn from as well. Because if you're trying to learn from somebody who's just so completely different from you, it's not ever going to feel like a good fit. Hmm.

Adam Liette
That's so interesting, especially when we're out I mean, we all buy online courses we're out in coaching programs. So how do we without coming or simply come right out and say, What's your DISC profile? Like what? That might not be a bad question to ask during a sales call, like knowing your own DISC profile and knowing asking whoever you're you're interviewing or is interviewing you. That can be a good question to ask when looking for out to make sure that this your discard corresponding

Deanna Pecina
it is and you can observe disk behaviors. So someone who is a D, for example, is going to be more. So DS and eyes are more future focused they are your Ds are going to have more of a loud voice, eyes are going to be more outgoing as well, Ds are going to be very direct, and they're going to have strong eye contact, your eyes are going to come across that same way as well. The difference between a D and an eye though is that Ds are going to be more task oriented and talk about things. And they're not going to show a lot of emotion. Whereas if you're dealing with an eye, that person is going to talk about people, they're going to be very animated, they're going to show a lot of emotion. And more than likely, they're going to just make you feel super comfortable and like they're your best friend, because that's just naturally how they are. If you're dealing with somebody who is a C or A S, they're going to be more reserved, they're going to be more thinking about the present or the past versus the future, they're going to be very calm, they're going to have a quiet voice, they may not have as strong of eye contact, it doesn't mean that they can't have eye contact, they're just not as direct as a deer or an eye. And then S's are also going to be very people oriented and show emotion more easily than a C would because C's are very focused on facts and details.

Adam Liette
Hmm. I'll link to the to your because you've explored each one of these in depth on your podcast Correct? I have. So I'll have links in the show notes to those episodes, we won't go deep into each one of those primary DISC DISC profiles. But a case you're wanting out there, I am a super high D like ridiculously high. And if I remember correctly, were you SCI or it was some kind of very some kind of

Deanna Pecina
I am I'm an I'm an S SCI, which means that it's a weird profile. And let me go back a step. It's not as easy to say that somebody is just a D, or somebody is just an eye because most people are not just one of the profiles. Most of us are a blend, which is how one di can show up a little differently than another D. So a DI is going to show up differently than, say a DC. You know, just it's because it's the combination. And so for me, my type is an S CI. So that means that on the DISC profile, there's a 50% line in for me, the SEC and the AI are all above the 50% line, My ass is a 99 I mean, you can't get much higher. My D is a 10. So my D is really, really low. But I have had people in my life tell me that I act like a D or that I come across that way. But that's because as an STI it's called a false D, which means I can act like the D if I know what the rules are. So I do really good with frameworks or rules or policies. But if it's something where someone gives me something and just says here, come up with this, it's a challenge for me because I I'd like to have something tangible to pull from so I know what the rules are.

Adam Liette
That's really interesting. Oh, well, we'll go too far down that rabbit hole if we keep going. But so so this is not only really useful and understanding ourselves, but also understanding the people around us, right and understanding what what kind of motivations that they have and the way their behavior shows up. Like so how, how have you used this when working with other people when working within a team and like what kind of quick wins can can the listeners get?

Deanna Pecina
Oh my gosh, I use it in all areas of my life. I've used it in work, I've used it in my marriage, I've used it with my kids. You know, one of my children is very much a high D and I can tell that when I start talking to him about any how I feel about something, it's just like, gonna get this eye roll. And I have to remind myself, I just need to give him the facts, like the more direct that I can be with him, the more likely he will receive the information. My other son is probably a high sea. So again, he needs details and facts as well but he needs a lot of details and facts whereas the other ones like just give me the vital information. So I it helps in especially when I'm wanting them to do something or trying to get something across to them to know how to tailor it in that way in in a work environment. It's helped me as a leader, because when I am in a managerial position, if I know what the DISC profile is of the person that I'm working, you know, working with, I know how to communicate with that person to get better results. Same thing, if I'm in a situation where I have someone that I'm reporting to, if I know what that person's DISC profile is, and let's say there's a particular situation where someone shows up themselves very triggered it, it empowers me to sit back and go, Okay. I know this person has a high D, and I know this is how they communicate. And I know that I'm a high s, and then I'm going to feel very uncomfortable with this because we communicate differently. It just makes it a lot easier to get through something that could otherwise be ambiguous or difficult. Hmm,

Adam Liette
absolutely. And just in my own personal life, or professional life, I should say, as the operator, like what Deanna was saying, I knew exactly what my CEO needed to make a decision. I knew what kind of information he needed. And he knew what kind of information I needed. So it really helps shorten the span between idea to bang, like you, you know exactly what they need. And that just makes the working relationships so much easier, because they're leaning into everyone's unique personality footprint, right?

Deanna Pecina
Absolutely. And I don't want to say it's manipulative, that's not the right word. But again, if so for if I'm, if I'm in a situation where I'm having conflict with somebody who's a high C, and I get emotional, or I start talking about how I'm feeling, I'm feeling overwhelmed, or I'm feeling this, they are not going to give to two hoots about my feelings. They want to know what's the data around the situation. Okay? So for example, I'm feeling overwhelmed, because, you know, this project is due tomorrow, but I have all of these other things to do. So I'm getting into my feelings, and I'm feeling overwhelmed. And I don't know where to start. Well, the fact of the matter is, this project is due tomorrow, these five other things have to be done, which one do you want me to not do today so that I can get the project done on time? You know, it's a completely different way of communicating, then if I go in and just say, Oh, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I don't know what to do.

Adam Liette
Right? I get a better result to I'm sure.

Deanna Pecina
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And same with me, you know, as somebody who's a high s, if I'm dealing with somebody who's a high D, and they come in, and they're just, you know, accusatory, or pointing fingers or, you know, being critical or making me feel unsafe, I will, I will shut down. And the thing about SS is we can be really passive aggressive. We may not like conflict, but we're really good at just holding things back and being passive aggressive. And so that's important for a D to know, when dealing with a high s, you you don't you want to make that s feel safe. Because they, they they struggle when it comes to change. And if you make someone feel unsafe, then they're they're not going to be as responsive as if you explain to them what's going on. This is where we are, this is why we need to do what we need to do.

Adam Liette
Right, right. And are there any personality types that are like oil and water? Like do not mix these two they won't mix? Or is it more just knowing each other so you can be more adaptive?

Deanna Pecina
I think it's more knowing each other so you can be more adaptive. I think that when you understand first of all that, that everybody's different and different doesn't mean bad. It just means different. And that everyone also has their greatest fear. So everybody's coming from this place of Well, are you trying to take advantage of me? Or am I going to lose your approval? Or am I going to be wrong? Or am I not a valuable member of the team? Those are very different fears. But when we know how to make people safe, so that those fears aren't triggered, then it makes it a lot easier to have conversations with that said I would say to you that DS and Ss are probably more polar opposite than any other two and then C C's and eyes because C's are very reserved and eyes are not. C's are very detail oriented eyes are not you know so there's there's little annoyances that can happen there. But when you understand where people are coming from, and you're also making sure that you have the right people in the right role, then it makes everything run a lot more smoothly.

Adam Liette
Gotcha. So all listeners out there if you have a team, I know do get asked in a second. But I would absolutely recommend get everyone get get their DISC profile, haven't taken it. Thank you guys, it's not a test. It's just let's just get everyone's baseline. How soon in the process? Would would you recommend that we get someone's DISC profile in the hiring process after they're already on the team? Or like how early? Do we want to get that?

Deanna Pecina
I would absolutely make sure that in hiring, you look at disc profiles, because I've been in a lot of interview situations where you're interviewing a candidate, you're like, Gosh, I really like her. I really like her. And it's like, well, yeah, you really liked her because she's a high eye, and you're gonna like her because she's a high eye. But this position is one that requires a lot of attention to detail. And her DISC profile is not showing that that's a strength. So you might really like her, but you're setting her up to fail because she doesn't match her her her skill set. Her natural skill set, and her behavioral patterns don't match the position. And that's not an indictment of that person. It's just that you, you want to set your team and you want to set the person up to win. Because if you don't set the person up to win, then they're not going to be engaged. They're going to be dissatisfied. I just saw statistic today that Gallup said that 51% of team members are actively looking for new jobs, or paying attention to job postings. That means half the people on your team are looking to quit. If you're not actively finding ways to build team culture and engagement by understanding the people that are on your team, and providing them opportunities to work in their strengths.

Adam Liette
Oh my god, 51%. That's incredible. Shocking. It is especially and it you know, think about the economy today is it's easier than ever to leave your job and find a new job, especially for us in the information space here. It's can find a remote job tomorrow if you're really wanting to

Deanna Pecina
write, but it's important for those people to understand too. Why are you dissatisfied? So it's it's twofold, right? As a as an employee, why am I dissatisfied? What is it that this job is asking me to do? That is making me uncomfortable? It's not that I don't want to work, I just don't like this work. I don't, I have this pit in my stomach every day when I get up and log into the computer or walk through the door. What is it that's causing that physical response, and you because that's, that's a major red flag that what you're being asked to do is not congruent with who you are. And then as a as a manager, or a CEO, or you know, department lead or whatever the case might be truly understanding that people on your team, what their talents are with the desk, and then what their motivations are with the Enneagram, you can really make sure that you are providing opportunities for growth or make getting people in the right positions.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. That's what I love so much about your data. It's not only like what's best for the team, what's best for the company, but really what's best for that person, like making sure we're serving them, right. And we're putting them in places to succeed, so they can knock it out of the park. Because it's right. It's not a personal indictment. It's just this just isn't for you, but something else will be. And it's I tell people all the time, like I don't care what business you're in, you're in the people business first. And if you don't treat it that way, it's gonna bite you in the butt eventually. Might be down the road, will eventually Yeah, absolutely.

Deanna Pecina
And especially if you're if you're running a business, you know, let's be honest, a lot of people start businesses or go into entrepreneurship because they don't want to work for somebody else. But then what do you what do you become, you become the person that people work for. So then you have to turn around and provide those very same structures that you didn't want to work in, in order for people to be able to show up and be successful and support you in the way that you deserve to be supported. Right.

Adam Liette
I just had a strategy call the other day with someone who's like, we're talking about just this like building a team and hiring. I've done that before and it just didn't work. No one's as good as me. I was like, well, maybe the problems you like, Have you ever thought and needless to say, Deanna, the call did not go well, but that's how I'm sure it's fine.

Deanna Pecina
Well, because not everybody has self awareness. And right. You know, there are a lot of studies out right now that speak to the importance of both self awareness and empathy as leadership skills. And those are both things that can make people feel uncomfortable because when you talk about self awareness It's not just being aware of what you're good at, but it's also being aware of what your blind spots are, and what your weaknesses are and where you need support.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. Oh my. So when we know that about ourselves when we know the areas that we are vulnerable to, and where we do need support like? Like, what, what do you recommend to people just come out and say it or just like, how do we communicate that to the people around us?

Deanna Pecina
Absolutely. I've done that in the past where I've been given something to do. And I've just said, Hey, listen, I really want to do a good job at this. But can you give me a couple of examples of what it is that you're looking for? It doesn't mean that I'm going to copy the example. It just means that it'll give me something to anchor my thinking to. So that I can do this in a way that makes everybody you know, everybody happy. Or saying, Okay, this, this is a difficult situation, as an as a high s and a C as well. I need time. So if there's, if I'm having to make a decision, and somebody puts me on the spot, I'm probably just going to be like it whatever you want, that's fine. Because I need time to think through things. And let it marinate so that I can make sure that I'm making the best decision. So if I'm working with someone who is more like, well, let's just do it, we need to do this. Let's get out. Let's let's get it done. We need to accomplish this. Now. I have to be able to say okay, I agree with you that this is really important. But because it's important, I need a little bit of time to think through things so that I can make sure that I formulate my answer in a way that's respectful of the decision.

Adam Liette
Mm hmm. That's so cool. And as leaders, it's one thing I really love that I've learned is great, I will operate this way I think this way, who cares? Right? If I'm working on a team, it's really about building those structures, so we can be conducive to everyone. And it's not about me, it's not about any of us. It's about the organization, the health of the organization. And when you have a team that's lined up and firing on all cylinders with everyone's unique superpowers, that's how you start blowing things up and just going to this new level. But it's, it's so hard for us to be empathetic guys, but you have to be okay. We are in the people business first period. And so tap into that inner empathy. be uncomfortable with it. But you know what, you know, what I found Deanna is the things that make me uncomfortable every day, and I write them down every day. What made me uncomfortable yesterday. It's in those areas of discomfort that I find the greatest growth, those are the things I need to work on. Never Ending self development. I love that so much.

Deanna Pecina
Absolutely. And, and I just want to acknowledge that as somebody you know, as a high D, empathy is not something that comes natural to a high D. And it's going it does require that level of self awareness to be able to step back and go, Okay, empathy doesn't mean that I have to feel what somebody else is feeling. Empathy means that you have to put the effort into understanding that someone else can look at things differently than you do. And that that's okay.

Adam Liette
Absolutely, yeah. So good. love it so much. And I do have to brag up Deanna here because we I've always used this one, not always. Last couple years, I've been using disc assessments in the hiring process. And it's something that I teach as well. And I was at one point going to hire an assistant for my for myself, and this person's application came across and I loved her. She was great. And I'm like, Oh, I can nerd out with you all day. And but she had a high eye. And yet, it's like, do not hire her Adam, she will drive you crazy. And so I did it. And so instead she became a student in our program, and she drove me crazy. There was absolutely right. Like, these things are natural, they're there. It's just part of it. And that's why we use it in the hiring process. It tells us a whole lot, not about the person themselves, but about the person's fit to the role. That's the important thing to divorce yourself that in your mind like oh, this person says crazy person. Nope, they're not a crazy person. They're just not the type of person we need for that role.

Deanna Pecina
Yes, yes. Because you know, as a high s I could argue that you had these are the crazy ones.

Adam Liette
Oh, we are crazy. Yeah.

Deanna Pecina
You know what I mean? It's like you can you could say that about any of the types it's like a high C could say that we you know, we hire essays are the crazy ones, because we're emotional or, you know, it's like, we all we all have our have our things, you know. And but to me, it's fascinating to be able to read people in that way. And it really, I'm not kidding when I say it becomes a superpower the number of times that I've had conversations with people, and they're like, how do you know that? And I'm like, I just observed you.

Adam Liette
Or some of you someone that tells you their personality type, you're like, Yeah, I know. I got done. already figured that out. I know why you told me. Yeah.

Deanna Pecina
I can think of, I can think about conversations that I've had with you in the past, where I would say something, and I could just see it on your face like, Huh? Well, I mean, I need to think about that, because that's correct.

Adam Liette
have an answer for you tomorrow, after I go for a walk and think about this and maybe shoot some guns or something. My mind is on rifles right now. It's it deer season started today, here in Ohio. So yes, I'll be out there later today. Very cool. Oh, so good. And I will put resources in, in the show notes here. If you haven't done this stuff yet to get your DISC profile to get your anagram. These are great tools to have not only for yourself, but especially for your team when you're leading people, just understanding their motivation, understanding their natural tendencies, and be able to lean into them. It makes like team leading I think we we over emphasize what it means to be a leader. But a leader, a leader, it's it's not difficult once we put the right pieces in place and start actually listening to people understanding people having that bit of empathy. And again, like, like Deanna said, empathy is not empathy, just understanding why, you know, and getting to that root cause. And it's so funny. Someone once told me, like, Adam, I'm so happy that you created a safe space for me. And when he said that, when I reflected on that comment, and I said, Man, six years ago, Sergeant First Class Liette, would have kicked this Adams ass for someone saying that about myself. But you know, that's, that's funny. And that's part of the wonderful growth curve that we go on. Just all about building the best version of ourselves. Deanna, and we talked about this in the pre interview, like a lot of these tools can be used for our own development and to develop our next steps and become the best version of ourselves. And so what experiences have you had with that?

Deanna Pecina
Well, I so my, my Enneagram type is a nine, which means that I can see all have the perspectives of all of the other types of the Enneagram, which is great. But it can also be overwhelming. And I'm always trying to learn and continually learn. And so I am always reading, I'm always looking for ways to be better. A quote that I really try to live by is, if you stop being better than you stop being good. And it's not this idea that like, there's this destination of perfection or anything like that, but it's just this continual willingness to learn every day and think about how you can apply that to your life. Because I don't I don't view leadership as positional. Because if you think about people that you have worked with, or that you have known who have and I'm going to use air quotes, leadership positions, some of them okay, I don't know if your show is explicit or not. So some of them are okay. Some of them are just assholes. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, just because you have a title, it doesn't equip you to lead. So leadership is relational leadership is your ability to show up and connect with the people around you. Leadership is not dictating to somebody you must do this. You need to do this. You have to do this. Leadership is coaching people to success. It is seeing things in people that they may not see in themselves, and digging in and helping them bring that out. That's what leadership is. It's not do as I say, it's not, you know, I'm sitting in this chair, so you have to listen to what I'm telling you. It's here, come sit beside me and let's do this together.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. So you're not a fan of military leadership. Deanna? Oh, God now. Now. Yeah,

Deanna Pecina
that's a whole other podcast, Adam, that's a whole podcast.

Adam Liette
I find it interesting because I'm still a reservists. So when I go to reserve duty, I have to put on that leadership hat, and then come back to the real world. And it's a different hat that I have to wear, because it's such a different mode, a different model. And thing is, it's, well, I much, I much prefer the latter, let me just say that. But it becomes kind of addicting to when you when you start to realize, and you start to see how you can help everyone around you and start to build that. That, that support and that love and that structure, and that it becomes a very real organic thing on a team when everyone is becoming their best selves and enabling each other instead of dictating, which I don't know about you all. I even though I'm a high I don't like confrontation, I don't like yelling at people. It makes it eats me up inside if they if this all eats you up inside. And the thought of leading a team goes, Oh, I don't want to do this because it requires this. No, it doesn't case. And that's what's great about these tools is they let us be ourselves and let us be our best selves, and let everyone else be their best selves. And it says, Yeah, I've seen so much good things happen. When we do start with this self awareness. Ah, now now I want to go read some more and learn some more. If someone's just getting started with this data, do you have any tips for them? Or any ways to make this a shortcut? It's obviously a you can go full deep and wide on it. But like, what are some of the quick wins we can get?

Deanna Pecina
Well, I think that I mean, the podcast series that I did on the different types, I think is super helpful because it gives a high overview of each type. I think that everything, if somebody's just getting started, you really have to start with yourself, you have to look at your own profile first and get to know your own private profile and observe how that shows up for you in the world before you can really start to understand what it could mean for somebody else. The disc profiles that that I offer are, I have one that's an entrepreneurial report, I have a career report that I can do just a regular report. And then I've got a one that can be used for hiring and then also a team report. So if someone has everyone on their team, take the report, then the team report correlates all of that and let you know, like this is your team's overall style. And this is how this is showing up for your team. These are some ways that you could improve communication, these are opportunities for growth, because just like every individual has blind spots, teams have blind spots as well. Because if you, for example, have a team where there's a leadership team, and you have let's we'll just pull a bunch of C's out of there, let's say you have three C's, and you have one D it's out of balance, right? Those three C's and those those facts and details and introversion and listening are going to conflict with that person who's a high D who just wants like, just, hey, you have the information, just do it. What is the problem? Why can we not just get this done. And so when you you're aware of that it can be really eye opening, and you go oh, that's that's where this continual communication challenge that we have is coming from it's because we have so many that are this type, and only one of us that are this type. Or likewise, if you have a team where you've got, you know, in leadership, you've got several ds, and you've got, let's say, an S and an eye, well, the SMI are gonna be like, oh, what kind of conflict is going to happen today? Because what do I need to be prepared to be uncomfortable about because that's just how it is. And it just it brings awareness when you can see what the team complexion looks like as well.

Adam Liette
Oh, wow. I wasn't aware of that. You could do team reports of Nancy like the team's personality itself. Now I'm super curious. And those are all available on your site. Correct?

Deanna Pecina
If someone wants to email me there, because the way that it works is there are codes and so I have to purchase the codes and then assign those codes to people. So if someone was interested in that they could Just email me at hello at leading by type.com. And I can get somebody set up with the codes that you need, and the particular report style that you want as well.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. And, again, you can get there like free like current kind of free reports out there. It's not that much money to get a team report, it's not that money to get your full detailed disk report, it really isn't. And it tells you so much more details. I've done it hire seven

Deanna Pecina
page reports. They're just tremendous in terms of the amount of information that they provide.

Adam Liette
Absolutely. And what I've done in hiring is, like everyone who applies does their desk and they'll print out, they'll give me the free version. And then if we're moving forward in the actual interview, then I'll have them do the paid version, because then that I want to see the in more in depth one, but you're going to free version upfront, then maybe purchase it a little down the line, because the systems kind of it saves it in the system, right.

Deanna Pecina
And so I actually have someone right now that I work with where they use the disc profiles that I have. So the Maxwell leadership team partnered with a company called people keys. And so people Kees is the are the ones who developed the disc profiles for the Maxwell leadership team. But they work with me so that when they're hiring, and they have that person that they're thinking about moving to the next step, they have them do one of the disk reports. And so I just give them the disc profiles at cost. So they're $47 for me, and I charge $50, just to cover processing fees. And it's been really helpful for them. Because the neat thing about the report that I use is that it shows you I like these disc reports that have like pie graphs and things they don't work for, they just aren't the same. The ones that we use, that shows you three things, it shows you somebody's natural style, somebody's adapted style, and then their mirror. So natural is how somebody is going to act in a stressful situation. It's just kind of like how you're naturally hardwired, there can be a difference between the natural and the adapted, because adapted is how you've learned to behave when you think you're being observed. You know, we always some of us are always a little bit more on our best behavior when we think that we're being watched. But then the mirror is how we view ourselves. So if there's a disconnect between the natural and the mirror, there's something going on there with that person that's worth looking into. And likewise, someone's adaptive might show that they're a good fit for the position, but their natural could show otherwise. And it might be in that's important, because, you know, under General circumstances, they might be fine. But if things ever get really stressful, you need to know that people revert back to that natural style. So you might have someone at work, who seems like totally fine. And then something happens. You're like, Oh, my goodness, what happened there? It's because they're being stretched, and that natural style is coming out and they're reacting differently.

Adam Liette
Um, my gosh, I just learned something about myself here. My adaptive is hice. Still high D, but my seed goes through the roof. Like it's almost on parity with my D. But yeah, when when rubber meets the road, and we're in a crisis mode, like, I just realized, I'm like, completely abandon all of that and just went into action. Let's do stuff, you know?

Deanna Pecina
Well, in DC, it's funny, right? It's because it's like, I'm going to tell you what to do. And then I'm going to tell you exactly how you need to do it.

Adam Liette
If you disagree, you're wrong. And I will tell you the number of ways that you were wrong. I have. I have thought this out. I have many bullet points on why you're wrong.

Deanna Pecina
Exactly.

Adam Liette
It's so cool. Fantastic. Well, I we're coming up on an hour. Deana. I do want to be respectful of your time. Do you have any final thoughts before we wrap things up here today? Or any any last words of wisdom?

Deanna Pecina
No, I just want to say thank you. And, and I would say to those of you that are listening, that I know that you're in good hands with Adam, and that really, regardless of your position or your role, the most important thing that you can do is start with yourself. Because leadership starts with self awareness. And if you can do that, you'll automatically show up better, a better version of yourself, for all the people in your life, not just the people that you work with, but the people that you live with and the people that you love.

Adam Liette
So good. I love it never ending personal development because personal development leads professional development. But you're right, it all starts with the person. When we figure that out, when we start taking care of ourselves, developing ourselves as the person, it just bleeds into everything else we're doing, and it becomes so wonderful and addicting, to be honest. Personal Development is professional development. And let's dispel any, any notion that it's not. Let's get that out of the way. So, Deanna, thank you so much. It's big shout out. And if you do check out the piano, I mean, when I say this stuff has been absolutely life changing. For me, I became a much better version of myself. I found a lot of blind spots, a lot of pain points that I had been hiding, even from myself. And it came from working with Deanna. Yes, I just can't thank you enough for all the work that you've done for me personally, but everyone that everyone that meets you is a better person for it. So thank you for all you're doing in the world. And check out Deana check out her podcast, guys, and you will not be disappointed. And thank you so much, Dan. It's been an absolute pleasure reconnecting.

Deanna Pecina
Thank you.