It’s all about communication. While many operators prefer to stay behind the scenes, learning to be more effective with our speaking voices is essential when leading teams.

I’m thrilled to welcome Brendon Kumarasamy from MasterTalk to the show to discuss tips that we can begin using immediately to increase our skill level.

I found this to be an incredibly actionable episode, with several suggestions that I’ve already implemented into my daily routine. I know you’re going to really enjoy this episode and the exercises that Brenden recommends.

Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com

Discover how to work with me: https://www.adamliette.com/work-with-me

Transcript

Adam Liette
Okay, welcome today's episode of smooth operator. So good to have you on our Friday episode. Today, we're joined by a guest expert to talk about one of my absolute favorite subjects that makes everyone super uncomfortable. So if this introduction itself makes you uncomfortable means you have to hear this episode. It is that important of a skill. And that's the skill of public speaking. So I think, Adam, dude, you make this show for operators for operations, people public speaking, what are you talking about? I get it, right, we think that we can sit silently behind our desk and just slack people to victory and oh, if I do everything in Asana, I can leave my team. That's all true. But using your voice, using your verbal communication skills is such a critical part, to being an outstanding leader. It's really what separates good leaders from the outstanding ones. It's the ability to communicate with your voice to motivate with your voice to inspire your team, with your youth, your voice. And so I've been geeking out about this all week, because I couldn't wait for this conversation. And overall, I mean, just you have to become comfortable and competent at using your voice to communicate with your team. It is an essential skill. And that's why I was like, Well, you know, I've done some public speaking, but I'm not an expert on it. So I better get an expert on the show. So I can't wait. Everyone out there. What let's welcome our guest, Brendon kumara. Sami from Master Talk. Thanks for joining me today. Brandon, how

Brenden Kumarasamy
are you? Very good, Adam. Thanks for having me. How are you?

Adam Liette
I'm doing fantastic. And actually in the pre show, we just found out we missed each other at Funnel Hacking live. But I weighed from across the auditorium. Yeah, definitely. We're counting it. So good to meet in this space. Can you just open up by telling us a little bit about your background and how you came to be this expert in public speaking?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Yeah, for sure. I'm happy to. So it all started when I was in college, I went to business school. And I didn't really want to be an entrepreneur, I was looking to be an executive at a company. So I started doing these things called case competitions. Think of it like professional sports, but for nerds. So will other guys my age are playing rugby, or baseball, or football. I wasn't one of those guys. I did presentations competitively. And that's how I learned how to speak. But then as I got older, Adam, I started helping a lot of the students on how to communicate, not because I was a great coach, because the alternative I had, or that they had was nobody. So I just started helping them. And that's what led to the idea for mastery talk because I felt that a lot of the information I was sharing with them wasn't really available for free on the internet. So I just started making YouTube videos, and then a few years later turned to what it is today.

Adam Liette
That is so fascinating. I love how so many of us in this space accidentally got here. Like we just fell into it. I was the same way I went to business school. And I'm going to be an executive somewhere. And then I got to run my first Facebook ad and I realized I could just do what I wanted without needing like 27 people's permission. That's what got me into this space. It was not needing permission to do stuff. It was like, This is amazing. I love this. So awesome beginnings. It's so amazing. So what did that? Like? What kind of initial feedback were you getting? When you were learning this skill? Like how was it like a? Did you go through any type of professional development? Or what did you do to really hone your skills in?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Absolutely, Adam, that's what's really fascinating, but my story is that I never really had a coach, or Toastmasters not because I didn't believe in those things I have a ton of coaches now helped me in every area of life. Because I was broke. You know, my parents were factory workers living on minimum wage, so I couldn't really afford some myself basically, when I was younger. So what did I do instead, most of my learning was by experience, because even back then there wasn't really YouTube videos that were that good on how to communicate ideas either, even back in 2015 2016. So essentially, this case competitions work at them. Think of it like a business competition. So let's say Nike comes up to us and says, Hey, I need to open this store. But I don't know where I want to open it should open in Berlin in Germany or Salt Lake City in Utah. So they give us an example a 20 page document. They say, hey, pitch us on which one we should open we could only do one of them. So we come up with the financial analysis, all this stuff, and then we present it back to business executives. That's what a case competition is. So a lot of my coaches, the people help To me, we're alumni of the program. So people who were a part of this crazy Cuca presentation competition stuff 10 years ago who are now executives, they became like the youngest VPs in their companies essentially. So instead of spending family time and having dinner, they come to the school and they coach us on how to communicate ideas effectively. And that's why I learned a lot of hard truths really quickly in life.

Adam Liette
I love that it's learning through experience, like be able to put yourself out there and I find, like speaking it's, you can practice it all day and night inside your room, but doesn't matter until you get to that public part of it. So like, what kind of experiences can we find around us to help us hone in on this skill?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Absolutely, Adam. So let me start with this, especially given your audience, you know, the way that I think about public speaking to your point, it's not about speaking on a stage always. It's simply how do we convey an idea in a way that achieves a specific outcome for a specific audience. But notice how broad that definition is. Achieving a specific outcome for a specific audience could mean a town hall meeting in front of 300 people, but it could also be convincing your significant other that we should have Mexican food and not Chinese food today. So communication, and public speaking, in my opinion, are interrelated. So given that, what are some ways that we can practice this on a day to day basis, let me start here. Communication is like juggling 18 balls at the same time. One of those balls is body language, a little more storytelling, facial expression, smiling, vocal tone, variety, and the list goes on. So we get really confusing for people who are just getting started. So the question is now, what are the three easiest balls to juggle, so let's cover that which I call my easy threes. And I'll pause after the first one, which is the random word exercise, Adam, pick a random word like badge like funnel, like trophy case, like mug and create random presentations out of thin air for 60 seconds on the spot. There are two reasons why this is effective. It helps you think on your feet. And if you can make sense out of nonsense, you can make sense out of anything. So do that a few times a day.

Adam Liette
Oh, my gosh, I love that so much. Do you read? Do you recommend recording yourself? Like to hear back when you do that?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Good question. So here's the way that I see it, you can record yourself at him. But for me, the conversation is always are you just doing it? You don't even need to record it. I think it's more about output. I'll give you an example. Think about the industry that we're all in right now. The operations industry, especially given your intro, not a lot of people even think about communication. So here's the question to keep in mind. What percentage of people in OPS do you think are even doing the random word exercise? 100 times total? Right? Even just the random word it says in general, right. Go ahead, jump in. You're the expert. Tell me.

Adam Liette
None, no, one, none.

Brenden Kumarasamy
But the point that I want to drive Adam is forget about doing it. Well, just doing it 100 times takes less than two hours, literally. Because once takes a minute. So 100 times is 100 minutes. And let me be very clear. It's what I'm saying to you, Adam. I'm not saying 100 minutes a week, I'm seeing 100 minutes in your entire frickin life. Right. And most people aren't willing to give me that. So I'm not asking for 100 minutes out of your day out of your week out of your month out of your year. I'm asking for 100 minutes out of your life so that you can get the results that 99% of people in industry don't get so I would start there.

Adam Liette
I love that so much. Well, I have a new challenge for tomorrow as part of my daily routine while he's looking to up my game. So that's becoming part of it. You said that was the first one you had to more correct.

Brenden Kumarasamy
You got it, Adam. I just didn't want a monologue for 15 minutes. Which brings me to number two, right? The question drill, we get asked questions all the time in our lives on a podcast in our day to day career as operations specialists and experts in that field as executives, as people in general, but a lot of us are reactive to those questions. We wait for the question to appear and we go hmm, I didn't really think of that. I'm guilty as well. Three years ago, when I started guesting on podcasts, I sucked. I remember some guy asked me, Hey, Brendan, where does the fear of communication come from? And I looked at him and I said, I don't know dude, Los Angeles, San Diego. I just I didn't know. I didn't know how to answer the question. So I was reactive. Not proactive. So I changed my approach every DM for only five minutes. That's it. I answered one question that I thought the world would ask me about my expertise, my products or my services. But if you do one question a day for a year Adam, you'll be bullet proof. because you'll have answered 365 questions about your industry, your products and your expertise. And this is something that I guarantee 100% of everyone listening to this podcast is not doing which means if you're the person who does, you'll beat everyone else.

Adam Liette
And especially over that duration of time, because I know, I've done high ticket phone sales before. And I had my objections that I thought I was going to be asked, and I practice those things like crazy. And I converted like 90% on those calls. So wow, it was awesome. The benefit of being the closer when you had a setter, so you know, it works out. But when you're talking about a duration of time, like if we do intense focus on something like you get this good. But if you do that short burst duration for over a long period, that's what's really building that competency, to where it becomes ingrained into you. And I think that's really, the 365 days of it. That's about making it a habit. It's about making part of your identity, part of who you are. Dude, you're adding work to my day, and I love every second of this interview already. And I'm gonna start doing that one too, Brandon. Love it. Awesome. Keep feeding me more work. Let me hear more. Let me hear part three.

Brenden Kumarasamy
Absolutely. And before I add per three, think about it, Adam, it's not an hour a day here we're talking. The only work I've given you so far is literally 10 minutes a day. This and by the way, anybody's listening to podcasts and saying, I don't have 10 minutes. My I've two arguments against that one, you already spent a bunch of time listening to this podcast has been longer than 10 minutes. So you got 10. And then the other reason is due shower, because if you don't show that another question for you, but if you do shower, you got 10 minutes there. So it's all about being creative. We all have time, we just choose not to make the time. Which brings us to number three. Number three is so simple, Adam, nobody does it. And all it is, is make a list of the people that you love people that you admire people that you look up to people that are your mentors, people in your network that are just always pouring into and ask yourself a simple question. When was the last time we sent any of these people a 22nd video message showcasing one thing, we're grateful about them. That's it. Just a quick gratitude video message. And guess what most people's number is Adam? A big fat zero. So I encourage all of you to start today. That's how I actually build most of my business. Most of my business today. Item is word of mouth. 50% like 40 50%. And you know what happens? They just get video messages from me. That's it. I just messaged someone, it's a birthday, or there's a holiday. And every time that happens at him, 10% of them always go you know, Brendon, your video, just reminding about the vice president you just have to have lunch with boom sale. That's it. Just most people don't do it.

Adam Liette
Dude, I'm blown away, like very three incredibly simple things that are gonna help you build your communicate. I like to flip the script, we're not talking about public speaking, we're talking about communication. It's all about communication. That reminds me of what Dan Kennedy said about marketing. It's just marketing guys. It's not online marketing. And the I did an interview the other day I love the the added benefit to like sending someone 20 seconds of gratitude. And if we that has benefits on the communication side, but what does it do to our hearts our souls I mean living in gratitude is this on tapped superpower. And when you live in gratitude, like Well, I'm gonna be doing this now to my wife is gonna love you. I'm gonna tell tell her there's Brendan that told me to send her the messages. So she might be calling you brand coaching

Brenden Kumarasamy
and, you know, you just mentioned Adam and just so right gratitude is everything is really this principle that's so simple before I flip it back. And the principle is simply this if you communicate 20% better than your competition, you will stand out 100% of the time and notice the number here ad it's not communicate 2,000% better or 20,000% better if you communicate just 20% better than everyone else you will stand out into our industry by a stretch and I have not met a single human being unless they've listened to this episode of me talking about these three things that I've been doing all three of them on a consistent basis zero in any industry. So if you are the person who does you'll reaping all the benefits

Adam Liette
I have the feeling that a accountability calls coming in about a month from Brandon to see if I if I did these things, but because I'm committing to buddy like, this is awesome. I love every part of this. Because you're right it's it's good. Our communication skills are so critical in this industry, especially in building our companies and sales in leading our teams. It's, it's so huge, dude. Fantastic. Oh, geeking out a little bit. So sorry for the audience. You guys know me, I get a little excited about this stuff. But he, you know, nerds, so it's okay. Anyway, I think one thing that holds people back and I find this to be it's a truth or it's a falsehood that people tell themselves. And I'd love to help people flip the script on this. Because a lot of people that are operators, we work behind the scenes, you know, we're more in the details on running the companies. And so I think we tell ourselves a story that we're introverts and so we can't do this. We can't be out there in the public. What would you say to someone that said, Dude, I just can't do this? I'm an introvert.

Brenden Kumarasamy
Absolutely. So I would start by explaining that some of the best communicators on the planet are actually introverts, Simon Sinek being a great example. So let's start there. But the other piece and how I've coached introverts and micro networks every time is to actually flip the question on its head at them, and explain to them why they're better communicators than extroverts. So there's three reasons why that is. The first one is they're better listeners, as we know, introverts speak less on average. So naturally, the listen more, I struggle with listening most of my life because I'm an extra extrovert, as you can probably guess. So I just like being at every party being at every event. So me listening to people is really tough. Obviously, I've worked on it now, and I'm a lot better at it. But at the beginning, it was horrible. Introverts don't have that problem, they're automatically better listeners. So they will adapt the message faster than an extrovert could. Number two, introverts are way better at the most important skill in communication, which is the pause, pausing more effectively. Introverts are really good at pausing. Because once again, they speak less on average, so they're comfortable in silence. So when I tell an introvert Hey, by the way, you need to pause in your presentations. They go, oh, oh, the thing that I do in normal life, I just need to in presentation. Sure. And it takes 30 seconds to apply. an extrovert forget about it. Whenever we're at a party, we're at a bar and there's a space, we want to fill it up immediately. What's your favorite color? That's what experts like me do. So it's hard for us to hold that space like an introvert could that's too and number three is not well known either. But it's the most important. Introverted speakers are actually more accessible to their audiences than extroverted speakers. Example, Gary Vaynerchuk. We all love the guy, I have big respect for him. But you either love him, or you don't. There's no in between. There's nobody who says hmm, you know, this Gary Vaynerchuk. Guy, I'm not really sure what I feel about him. Nobody says that. But the opposite is also true. Which is, nobody has uttered the following words in human history, Adam, I hate Brene. Brown, if you say that the FBI, the CIA, the SWAT team, they're all going to come to your house, kidnapped entire family, and put you to jail. Because you're just not allowed to say that. Nobody's allowed to say that. And that's really the point I want to drive is when you're an introverted speaker, you get a lot less hate, and you're a lot more accessible to your audience. So what's the message tripled down on your strengths? Because he got a lot more than you think.

Adam Liette
Oh, my goodness. That's, I love that so much. Well, this, Gary Vee does have the advantage of sometimes polarizing is good, though, honestly, like it is good to deliberately separate your tribe and stand for something. And I think sometimes it's more about being firm in your stance than your communication methods, if that makes sense.

Brenden Kumarasamy
I agree. I think there's arguments for and against because you could say that but then you can also look at Oprah and say she's not that polarizing, but she's 100 times more popular than Gary Vee is. So there's like arguments on both sides that you could piece together. But I think the point is, the conclusion is whether you're an introvert or an extrovert doesn't really matter. What matters more is are you willing to learn from the other person? So if you're more introverted, learn from the extrovert, take bigger risks, learn how to do eye contact and how to project your voice, whether it's through karaoke, whether it's to go into bar events. And if you're more extroverted, learn to listen, learn how to pause more effectively, and learn how to be a little bit more accessible when you need to be and that's what I think Gary Vee doesn't do really well. And some that give him feedback on even if the guy's an all star he doesn't need my feedback is when he speaks to somebody more introvert in a podcast, he should change his energy to the person he's speaking to, or else he's going to overwhelm them like he does with a lot of people he talks to.

Adam Liette
And it's interesting you said that, like, we feed off the energy of someone near us like that. I know listeners, you can back me up on this. I'm more extroverted on this episode and more excitable on this episode because I'm feeding off Brandon. And we got Scott this thing. I don't know about y'all like zoom feels real now it's weird. I don't know we've been doing it long enough. Like, I feel like I'm right in the same room with Brandon. And we just there's an energy when you're communicating with someone, it does carry this weight it carries this, this thing under I don't even know how to explain it. Can you? Can you explain what that communication expert explained? Like?

Brenden Kumarasamy
It's good as it's I don't get asked that question before. I would say you know, for me, it's more around energy than communication. This case, Adam, it's just reciprocity. There's some people that you just meet in your life that you just look at them. And you say, Huh, like, I feel I've met you somewhere before. I just don't know where, where it's like it like it doesn't feel like this is the first time I'm talking to you, Adam, right? It's just like, No, haven't I? Did we have lunch at phenoxy? Like, I'm pretty sure, right? Because it feels like we really know each other. And that there's other people that it just makes sense on paper, like they could do business partnerships together. They could do everything together. They're two peas in a pod and you put them together and nothing works. It just it just doesn't. It just doesn't spark. So it's I think it's more of an energy thing. That's what the number one trait that I've always seen in relationship building is reciprocity has nothing to do with what you do. It's all about the energy that you're speaking to somebody with.

Adam Liette
I love that. Hey, and I gave you a new question you hadn't been asked before. That's true. And I can add it to your question. Let's see. feel right. That's a little bit of that's my reciprocity. Brennan see that? Love it? I've been rereading. Have you ever had child dini?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Persuasion? Influence? Yeah, that's,

Adam Liette
I'm really I just reread it for a series I'm doing on the show. And so I got deep into reciprocity, again, it's been like, all of the years since I read the book, and I read, I've read it a number of times. It's brilliant. So cool. You mentioned something earlier, I want to circle back to. So yeah, just to tie a bow on that you're introvert, and this is actually a gift. Love it. So embrace it. And go ahead, don't let it stop you. That being said, when we're communicating auditorily I think everyone. After a while you start to develop who you are. When you communicate, you develop a voice, you develop kind of your way of delivering your way of communicating. How do you go about finding that authentic authenticity, finding your voice?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Right, so another word for your question, Adam, which is, of course, super poignant and relevant, is communication style, where it's how do you find your style? How do you find your voice? And the answer is, it evolves over time. So if you look at like, just let's use Gary Vee as a placeholder here, when he was 13, you watch his old keynotes very different than how he speaks today. In the same way, like when I started making YouTube videos, I didn't really think about style, I just opened a phone in my mom's basement, I just started making videos. So I do feel that style gets developed over time, but the only way it doesn't get developed, is by not starting. So if you've got to start, you need to start creating content, or sharing ideas and underway, more consistent basis. That's one piece. The other piece, you can use your brain for a little bit more, which is using models, find people that you really admire and pull one thing from everybody that you admire. So I'd recommend starting with three speakers. So I'll give you an example. I really liked Gary Vee, his ability to be relatable to other people. I think that's fascinating. But his style is you can relate to six and 60 year olds, and he's very blunt. So I have that in me, but I don't swear, right, so I took that off. So then let's go to the next person. Let's say we take a Seth Godin, Seth Godin is a big influence in the way that I communicate. He's like a super prolific marketer. I'm sure a lot of people listening this know he is. So in such case, the thing I admire about him is a very deep thinker, even at like 62 or 63 years old. He's like in the 60s now. He's still pushing thought leadership. He just wrote he wrote a book this year, he's still doing this blog that he started since like the dawn of the internet, that's still going on every day, he's still willing to push himself. And that's something that I have ingrained in me as well. Doesn't matter how successful I become in this life, I have to always keep pushing my brain until my time is up, so I can squeeze as much knowledge. And then with Lewis Howes, it's more around the topic of humility. He's a very humble guy, so he doesn't name drop anytime when he's talking about his friends or talking about accomplishments. He never says anything about the people he knows. And that's always a constant reminder for me that whenever I communicate ideas on a podcast, I should never talk about my accomplishments, but rather than lead with the value that I have

Adam Liette
I love that idea of listening to three speakers and modeling yourself after that. It's using that in SPIRATION it's actually my background prior to all this was I'm a classically trained musician. So I went all the way through school, you know, bachelor's in trumpet performance. Look how that worked out, it actually did work out because the musical skills continue to serve me well. And that's exactly how we, that's how you get good at music. It's not about playing what's on the page. It's about listening to other musicians and mimicking what they're doing, like in graining that into your ear, we call it in music, we call it an ear worm. And that's when the sound of someone else's voice or their instrument is right. It's ingrained in your ear, and you can hear it at a moment's notice. So I love that idea of just finding your motivated motivational people that get you excited, or inspire you. And just immersing yourself in their, their, their stuff. And there's so much stuff out there, my gosh, we have more materials on these things. And I'm holding up the phone, sorry, audio show. We got more material available to us than ever before in human history. And it's only going to continue. That's awesome. Oh, well, all right. Now, I love these kinds of episodes in these kinds of explorations, because now I got a bunch of homework to do on my on my own. And the one thing that you mentioned, and I had another question here, that kind of tails into it. You know, practicing communication, practicing explaining things, one thing that we know is that you can know a subject but until you try to teach it, you really don't know it, like teaching something and having to teach someone and explain something is a really good way of not only ingraining that skill in you, but also practicing really complex communication skills. So do you have any specific advice for communicating complex, even technical tasks in a verbal way, when they maybe would be better shown?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Absolutely, Adam. So here's, here's the way that I think about it. I would say the way that make the complex simple is to start with the complex, and ask questions around it until it becomes simpler. So I'll give you an example. The question that Kevin Systrom asked the founder of Instagram, I love it so much is the following. If you had to remove if you had to remove one thing from my presentation, what would you remove and why. So if you keep asking that question to the people around you, you'll start to realize that what you have to share can be changed in some way, shape, or form. Obviously, there's some jargon that you can't really remove sometimes. But if your goal is to impact a lot of people or you feel the message should be heard by people who don't understand what your expertise is, you need to test that material across a different set of audiences. And the other piece is you need to ask your audience what they've retained. And this is the hard work that most people aren't willing to do. So for example, there's a reason why Adam, whenever I'm on a podcast, I specifically mention the video message, the question drill and the random word exercise. Because in all of my brain and all my knowledge on communication, I know these are the three easiest things that anyone can implement with no excuse. So if I say something like, oh, you know, give a presentation. But I don't have a presentation come up. I don't need to do it. Oh, well, do you know you should work on this or your public speaking? Oh, you know, I don't really want to be a public speaker. So I think about all of the objections ahead of time, because I've already had those conversations, so that everything that I say gets optimized in a way that helps other people. So the third part of this drill is really simple. You got to talk to your audience. And see if your outcome landed, going back to my definition, right, achieving a specific outcome for specific audience. We got to find out did you achieve the specific outcome? Go to your audience? What was your takeaway? Oh, I don't know. Adam, I didn't really get what you were saying that around this, but didn't do it. What you go to next? Procedurally, what do you take away? I don't really know. Was there a presentation today? I thought that was I was just eating lunch. I wasn't really paying attention. So it's through that feedback, that tough love, leaving that ego at the door that helps you find the truth.

Adam Liette
One simple ways y'all can do this with your teams, is, I mean, you've ever briefed someone on like a task and said, Hey, Jim, I need you to do this. Add this little filler on the back end of it, say okay, can you explain to me what your job is? What can you explain to me in your own words, what your task is, and then you're gonna see if they understood what you told them. And, and if you're paying attention, I might have been called out on this at least once in my career. Okay, more than once. But it's a good little skill for when you're leading people to add that because yeah, there's two things to gather from that I from my entire professional life as a leader, I thought that oh, I'm going to check to see if they were listening to me. And now I just added a second element to it. I'm going to check to see if I communicated this well. So it's a two way street. Oh, I love being caught out on the road. That's awesome. Dude.

Brenden Kumarasamy
I love your question, too. That's really good.

Adam Liette
I have one final big question. It's kind of a big topic. So I'll try to summarize it well. I think with us not always being in person as much. We've lost some of our nonverbals like how, what can you tell the audience about nonverbal communication, the importance of of it, and how maybe some tricks that you have to become a more effective nonverbal communicator?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Absolutely, Adam. So here's the way that I would see it to keep things simple. With nonverbal, the only real thing I would pay attention to because a lot of little nuances are on your hands and all that stuff that I won't get into too much today. Because I feel doing the random word acts as the question of the video message is way more effective, I would say the biggest thing you need to pay attention to with your nonverbals is your face. So three specific areas in your face, the way that you smile, the way that you dilate your eyes, and your eyebrows. So what you'll find sometimes when people talk is their eyebrows always stay in the same place like their face is stuck like it's frozen in ice. So they're not super expressive. So they don't look excited about the knowledge that they're sharing. So that's one piece, just try and move around your eyebrows a little bit. Secondly, their eyes if your eyes always stay in the same place, but you don't open them up a little. You don't actually show enthusiasm through you the way that you're looking at people. Like when somebody says an aha, if you just keep your eyes the same. Go, I guess, I guess I didn't really get much from it. And then the third piece is smiling. Oh my god, do people do this wrong? Smiling, does it mean you need to smile through teeth all the time, it just means there's a big difference between just not showing your face at all, versus smiling just a tiny little bit to show interest a little goes a long way. So I would encourage people to really focus on that nod their head a little bit to from time to time.

Adam Liette
You're mentioning something like the bad I just I just watched American Psycho, the other over the weekend, if you've ever seen that movie, and like that's the character and it's just like eyebrows don't move eyes are dead, just like exactly right. That's good homework assignment. And it's a little fun to watch that. And don't do that. Don't be that guy. So fantastic. Listeners, I know if you're anything, I'll be going back to the beginning because I got notes. But I feel like I definitely missed one or two things. So to wrap a bow on this, Brendon, there's so much red meat from this interview. And I think you gave everyone here a whole lot of really practical, simple, easy things that they can go out today. And tomorrow and continue on. And listeners, I'm gonna challenge you, like, hit me back. And you know, comment on the Facebook post. Tell me what's working for you. And like, this would be a movement, we should all be doing this. So fantastic. Dude, thank you so much, Brian, this has been an absolute pleasure. So where can listeners find out more about you?

Brenden Kumarasamy
Absolutely. Adam, this is super fun. Thanks for having me on the show. So two ways to keep in touch one is the YouTube channel. Just go to master talk in one word, and you'll have access to hundreds of free videos on how to communicate ideas effectively. And the second way to keep in touch is to attend one of my free live workshops on communication. I do a free one on Zoom every two weeks. These are not recorded webinars, they're live, they're interactive, they're fun, and they're free, and I facilitate them. So if you want to jump in on that, go to Rockstar communicator.com And even if you're introverted or shy, you're more than welcome to jump in and just turn your camera off.

Adam Liette
Well, if you're introverted, you have a superpower guys, right? We need to stop the lie that introverted people can't do this. We're actually better at this. So boom, love it. Brendon, you're gonna see me at one of those. I promise you that because I have enjoyed every last second of this conversation. And I'll be completely honest, what when I get I'm getting ready for a presentation. Like one of the one of the tricks I use is I will practice that presentation 45 ways from Sunday, walking in circles around my office until I have it like work on the cadence and work on the pauses. And now I have some new stuff to work on. That's going to allow me to continue to up my communication game. And I'm so grateful for that brother. This has been awesome.

Brenden Kumarasamy
Hey, likewise, it's been really

Adam Liette
fantastic Brandon. Stay in touch and we'll see you next time on smooth operator.